Walther Forums banner

1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
" Loads with lighter bullets may have a little less perceived recoil and higher velocities than heavier bullets" (A DIRECT QUOTE)

This is the claim you hear all over the internet regarding 9mm bullet grain weight. My question is quite simple:
is this really true? There are many who will say that a 147gr cartridge will have significantly lower felt recoil than a 115gr cartridge. and the new Action Pistol Federal 150gr Syntech is supposed to have a soft recoil. So, which is correct? I've been experimenting among the various 9mm weights for some time and still haven't come to any good conclusion. I'm looking for a low recoil 9mm to enable me to improve my rapid fire ability. I've heard about some -P cartridges that further reduce the powder load that would help with recoil but there's not much talk about it. I, of course, know the importance of grip and stance when it comes to recoil but is that enough to reduce split times to .5 seconds (or less) in my PPQ M2? Please don't advise me to purchase the SF Q5 or the SF Q4.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
968 Posts
Watch videos by Mike Seeklander and Bob Vogel. I'm 75 and 160lbs and it made a huge difference for me, shooting my poly Q5 Match. I had keeping ahold of the gun with my support hand until I started clamping down harder and my splits are under a half-second. Not record breaking, but for me a big difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks ag....I already reviewed Bob Vogel's video 3 times and I intend to apply some of his changes top my grip next time I'm at the range. Haven't viewed Seeklander's video yet. I'm a little skeptical that a modest grip change will provide a flatter flip impulse to the degree necessary to fire .5 or less splits. I've even tried weighting down the muzzle, using the accessory rail, but that only made things worse. I'm now thinking of using 100gr cartridges with low muzzle energy to see if that makes a difference. I'm trying everything I can think of. By the way, I only shoot for sport (no edc) and my goal is marksmanship (bullseye) improvement thus accuracy and speed are paramount.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
ag...I viewed a couple of Mike Seeklander's videos and I must say...I'm impressed. His grip emphasis is a little different from Bob Vogel's and I'm going to try them both. I especially like his one hand techniques and can't wait to try out the two that he demonstrated. Thanks ag for the tip regarding these two fellas...the only downside is the obvious conclusion that I'm too old to ever accomplish even a smidgen of their handgun prowess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
968 Posts
I got a lot more out of Mike Seeklander's videos than I did Bob Vogel. Grip hard both hands, just short of getting the shakes. The gun doesn't jump out of my support hand anymore like it did. I just have to remember to do it all right, when the buzzer goes off.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
968 Posts
JSHOHET; I'm 75, small and not that strong and if I can do it, anyone can. The idea is to keep the gun from jumping out of your support hand. Wrap it around as much of the grip as you can and don't worry about how much your support hand thumb is in front of your other thumb. My grip thumb comes up to the first joint of my support hand thumb. Most guys have the grip thumb all the way to the base of their support hand thumb. I want as much pressure on the grip as I can get.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
You can't just talk about bullet weight. If you are buying factory loads, the biggest factor is how hot they are loaded. This is a combination of both powder charge and bullet weight. The relevant question is: what loads recoil the least AT THE SAME POWER FACTOR? Here, the consensus is that a heavier bullet gives a softer recoil impulse.

What is more important to be able to shoot fast accurate splits, is the time it takes to recover your sight picture - sight recovery. A soft recoil impulse is not alway the fastest in this regard. Many top-end shooters actually prefer mid-weight bullets with a harsher but faster recoil impulse because the fast recoil impulse gives a faster sight recovery and faster splits.

Actually, tuning the ammunition is individual for your specific grip and your preferences and will utimately yield very limited improvements. The biggest improvement with ammunition is just finding a load that provides the required power factor with a reasonable margin, instead of shooting unneccessarily hot loads.

Using a heavy steel pistol instead of a light polymer gun will also make for faster sight recovery and softer recoil, more so than just using soft loads.

However, the biggest improvement you can make in shooting fast splits is working on your technique. Good technique will make for far faster splits than tuning your ammunition or changing your gun will. Good technique will also make you shoot faster and better with all loads, all guns.

Find the correct grip and program yourself sure to use it always - no exceptions. Dry fire really crushing the gun with your grip, get to work with captains of crush, start practicing "bill drills" and "the dots". When shoting, use as strong a grip as you can while retaining proper trigger control and without shaking. Do all this and you'll get LOTS faster than 0,50 splits, I promise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14 Posts
Well put by Sloth. If you’re hand loading it’s obviously easier to experiment with different bullet weights and powder charges. It really helps to shoot a variety at a range visit and even within a single mag. If you can get ahold of all three offerings of the Federal Syntech in 115, 124 & 150 and shoot them side by side you will get a good sense in the difference in felt recoil and muzzle lift. I have experimented a fair amount and personally really like a 147 grn bullet at about 900 FPS.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks so much to all for the excellent advice. After watching the Seeklander video, however, I did realize something new about my grip. With my strong hand held as high up on the grip as possible I still experience a 1/8" gap between the web of my hand and the beavertail. It may be due to my hand size or shape. Also, I'm using the "S" grip backstrap (the larger backstraps felt too big). This gap may well be contributing to the muzzle flip I experience. Everything else about the grip feels great. Now I'm exploring ways to fill that gap and I'm looking at a Hogue rubber sleeve that extends to the beavertail. I've read about folks that mold new beavertail shapes on their gun but that seems an extreme solution for me. Has anyone else had this problem and was there a fix? Perhaps that's why recent handgun designs are sporting elongated and radically curved beavertails. Notice how much emphasis both Vogel and Seeklander place upon this area of the grip. So perhaps the answer is to correct the grip before worrying about ammo power factor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
968 Posts
I just shot a USPSA type match tonight and there was no noticeable muzzle flip because I clamped down with both hands tight and did the twisting action Mike recommends. Matter of fact, I almost shot a clean match with hardly anything out of the A zone. If I can do it at the age of 75 and 160lbs, anyone can. I've struggled the gun jumping out of my support hand for years, until watching Mike Seeklander instruction and it was a real awakening. You are overthinking it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Thanks so much to all for the excellent advice. After watching the Seeklander video, however, I did realize something new about my grip. With my strong hand held as high up on the grip as possible I still experience a 1/8" gap between the web of my hand and the beavertail. It may be due to my hand size or shape. Also, I'm using the "S" grip backstrap (the larger backstraps felt too big). This gap may well be contributing to the muzzle flip I experience. ... So perhaps the answer is to correct the grip before worrying about ammo power factor.
Yes, but I can't imagine how this would be any more difficult than just moving your hand higher. When you draw the pistol, the first point of contact should be pushing the web of your hand up against the backstrap, the rest of the strong hand grip should be as a result of this pretext. It's normal for the hands to be somewhat tilted down when gripping the pistol, the weak hand even more so - it's fingers, when extended, should be some 45 degrees angle to the barrel when holding the proper grip.
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top