[John D Deaton]

Had an interesting night at the range this evening. Looking for some input as to what might have caused this. Was shooting my PPQ .45 with reloads bought at the range I use. I've shot well over 3 thousand rounds with no issues until this evening. Had a FtF that stovepiped the live round. Cleared it and the next round fired properly. Squeezed the trigger a second time after the FtF and KABOOM! Owner of the range said it looked like the round fired with the gun ever so slightly out of battery based on examining the case. Left the firearm with them to have their gunsmith take a look at it. Curious if this is a known issue, what might cause this type of issue. Thanks in advance!

John

 

[23738]

with reloads bought at the range I use.

what might cause this type of issue

Don't use dodgy reloads. Sounds like a cartridge OAL issue, bullet wasn't seated, and caused the Q to fire OoB.


*OAL = overall length (of cartridge)
*Q = slang for PPQ
*OoB = out of battery

 

[357PPQ]

When shooting very fast, I have had the sear trip before the slide was in battery several times. Wlather says that I am nut but if you slowly lower the slide with an empty gun, there is a point were the sear with trip without the slide being completely in battery. I have changed my shooting style to hold the trigger back and go for the reset and there are no problems. I do not know if this is an issue with all PPQ (Mine is M1), but I sent it back to Walther and they said there was no problem.

Although have never experienced a fire, but the gun is dead, and must be reset. Since it can happen with an empty gun, I do not think it is doggie loads.

 

[grumpy1]

Sorry to hear this happen but with reloads your Walther warranty is most likely void. I hope the range takes care of it for you.

 

[357PPQ]

Sorry to hear this happen but with reloads your Walther warranty is most likely void. I hope the range takes care of it for you.

I am not using relaods. The gun has a flaw, maybe not all of them, but some do. Maybe you were not reading, in that I sent it to Walther under warranty, they did not fix it. Maybe you just cannot shoot fast enough.

 

[357PPQ]

Don't use dodgy reloads. Sounds like a cartridge OAL issue, bullet wasn't seated, and caused the Q to fire OoB.


*OAL = overall length (of cartridge)
*Q = slang for PPQ
*OoB = out of battery

A gun should never fire out of battery even if using reloads.

 

[23738]

A gun should never fire out of battery even if using reloads.

Calm down hoss.

I've personally seen a Glock (as in, I was shooting it) with handloads that were too long, and it would fire ever so slightly out of battery. The reason I know this? Powder residue coming out. Definitely noticeable shooting in the dark...

No, a gun shouldn't fire (or be fired) out of battery, but it can happen with bad ammo, in regards to case length or OAL. Again, personal experience.

I had some store bought ammo from a very reputable maker, would NOT fire in an M&P, indeed, the slide wouldn't go into battery fully. My PPQ had no issue and ate them all.

Not all guns are the same. Perhaps OP's gun IS bad. But how hard is it to take a micrometer and measure a few cartridges? Especially when THAT particular box of ammo is doing what he described...

If the rounds measure within spec, well, I'd be on the 'phone with Walther CS in the morning...

 

[MGMike]

This discussion is leading nowhere. How can anything intelligent be said without a clear and complete description of exactly what happened and the resulting condition of the gun AND the fired case. I'm not sure what an "FtF" ("fire" or "feed"?) is, or even what the OP means by "stovepipe of a live round".

M

 

[Redcat94]

I'm not sure what an "FtF" ("fire" or "feed"?) is

Using "FtF" as an abbreviation is one of my biggest annoyances on the forum. Anyone using it should be "BFL".

 

[2BNKS]

Did you try to refire the original culprit round and it then fired out of battery?

 

[MGMike]

Did you try to refire the original culprit round and it then fired out of battery?

We don't even know that it fired "out of battery". That is a conclusion, not a description.

M

 

[John D Deaton]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...uPog-Sw_or__LzQXeAT2BIHmnC6MdiZb3Nu3RGKA0cADv

OR here https://flic.kr/p/2dpKJMS
Hopefully that is a photo of the case. I don't own a micrometer , but will gladly go buy one this evening and measure the case if that would help. Sorry for my short hand, new to the forum and was trying to make things a little more brief. Will never use FtF again. Yes it was a Failure To Feed. By stovepiped the live round I mean the live fed round stuck up like a stovepipe after being caught in the slide. The gun has been sent in to Walther. I have no idea what the condition of the gun is. I know my hands were in quite a bit of pain and covered in burnt powder. I am just wanting to understand what might have happened. Something obviously went wrong here. If it's the ammo, no worries I will never ever use reloads again. If there is a problem with the firearm I'd like to have an idea what that might be. If we are worried about what short hand is used and think people should be banned for using it, then obviously I've come to the wrong place.

 

[balance]

When shooting very fast, I have had the sear trip before the slide was in battery several times. Wlather says that I am nut but if you slowly lower the slide with an empty gun, there is a point were the sear with trip without the slide being completely in battery.

If possible, can you put up a video of yourself or anyone else shooting a PPQ fast enough to outrun the slide while pulling the trigger? I find this very hard to believe, being that if this was possible, that you must be able to achieve around .05 second splits. I can take the slide release lever off of my CZ-75 when slowly racking the slide. I can't do so when firing a round.

Here is a video of a PPQ being bump fired. Are you saying that you can shoot faster than this?

2:35:

Even so, on a PPQ, this would not result in a pistol that fired out of battery, as the trigger bar wouldn't be in the correct position to lift the firing pin block out of the way enough so that the striker could impact the primer on the chambered cartridge.

This discussion is leading nowhere. How can anything intelligent be said without a clear and complete description of exactly what happened and the resulting condition of the gun AND the fired case. I'm not sure what an "FtF" ("fire" or "feed"?) is, or even what the OP means by "stovepipe of a live round".

I agree completely. I would like to see a few pictures of the pistol and the fired casing, and I'm still not sure about what happened in regards to the chain of events before the discharge.

 

[SlowerNow]

One have to sign in to FB.to look at the video.
I've never been on FB.,and that's my plan for the future too.

 

[SlowerNow]

He said on the video,that it's a little front heavy,so that's why the slide have relive holes/slots.It isn't ported.

 

[balance]

OR here https://flic.kr/p/2dpKJMS

That looks like it fired in battery, and the casing followed the shape of the feedramp. That could have happened for any number of reasons, and with reloaded ammunition, that would be the first place I would look.

 

[MGMike]

I'm not signing in to FB either.

I take it this is a modified gun?

Was it visibly damaged in this incident?

I agree with Balance; no evidence of firing out of battery.

Was the firing pin indent centered on the primer? The photos don't show it.

I think that if I wanted to find the cause I would be breaking down and looking at the unfired rounds.

A little voice is telling me that the first round was weak, causing a failure to completely cycle and a "nose up" failure to feed the second round. That was cleared; on the third round the bullet got stuck in the bore, and the fourth round ruptured from the resulting excessive pressure.

That is consistent with what few facts we have, and makes more sense than any "firing out of battery".



M

 

[MGMike]

... Anyone using it should be "BFL".

Let's don't get carried away...

It's his first post.

M

 

[John D Deaton]

I take it this is a modified gun?

Was it visibly damaged in this incident?

I agree with Balance; no evidence of firing out of battery.

Was the firing pin indent centered on the primer? The photos don't show it.

A little voice is telling me that the first round was weak, causing a failure to completely cycle and a "nose up" failure to feed the second round. That was cleared; on the third round the bullet got stuck in the bore, and the fourth round ruptured from the resulting excessive pressure.

That is consistent with what few facts we have, and makes more sense than any "firing out of battery".



M

https://flic.kr/p/2c6MbBV Added a photo of the base of the cartridge.

The gun is not modified at all.

After talking with the owners of the range again this evening, I now know that the gun was indeed damaged. At the very least one of the slide release levers was bent during the incident. I'm not sure if there was any more damage, but the gun has been RMA'd to Walther to be checked out.

Your explanation for what probably happened is exactly what I initially thought. While nothing felt different to me, except the final discharge, it is the most logical explanation. Thank you for taking the time to answer!

 

[2BNKS]

We don't even know that it fired "out of battery". That is a conclusion, not a description.

M

That is why I asked. Seems like alot of visions of what happened or could have happened. Hope it gets repaired if it needs it.