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I've got a 5" PPQ M2 that I love, and I've been doing a variety of drills with it recently. Everything seems to be fine...except one thing....

I was doing a "near contact distance" drill, shooting at a silhouette with the muzzle only about a foot away from the target. In this drill, you index the gun butt against your rib cage, with the gun tilted slightly to the right. The tilt is to maximise the ejection of the spent casing.

This is the first time I've done this drill, and every time I tried it the PPQ jammed. It seems that the fired casing gets caught by the slide, and never clears the slide.

At first I thought it might be that I was mistakenly using light loads, but this was with my normal load of 115 grain, plated bullets with 3.7 gr of Ramshot Competition powder. Theses loads have never had a problem before, and I've shot maybe 600 rounds of them through this pistol.

Has anyone else tried this drill? Anyone else had this problem with the pistol tilted like that? I realise the pistol is optimised for target shooting, but it should still be able to be used this way, correct?

Rictshaw
 

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Limp wristing the pistol. Why is that? Because you can't hold it for chit in the manner you described.

Your "near contact distance drill" will work with a revolver.
Absolutely correct in that position the slide has nothing to compress the spring against. Try compressing a spring against a hard surface and then try the same thing against a pillow. I’m sure you can imagine the result. The same thing happens during the Near Contact Distance drill.
 

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Wow, such "helpful" suggestions! You guys are a riot!

No really, the reason I'm practicing that (and the reason I'm asking) is because of the fact that I'm rapidly losing my vision to Macular Degeneration. (If you're not familiar with that, it's a condition/disease where the central part of your vision becomes a large "black hole"; no cure).

I'm younger than most people who get this condition, but I've been shooting for about 20 years, and I want to continue for as long as I can: my eye surgeon says six months to a year until "practically blind". I also know that disabled people are seen as easy pickings by the human predators, and I want to be able to defend myself once I can't see beyond arms reach. And I want to make sure the gun isn't taken away from me, hence the "speed rock" type exercise.

So, long story short, I'm not trying to be "gangsta" or John Wick...but my defensive range will be arms length, and I wanted to find out if the PPQ would be a good tool for that. Seems like it won't. I don't THINK it's because of limp wristing the gun, since it didn't happen when I tried the same drill with my Glock, or my beloved S&W 3913, or even my little Ruger LC9...doing the same drill with the same ammo.

Anyway, thanks for all the "help" :p, and if you know anyone who is still shooting with Macular Degen, let me know...I'd love to trade tactics/workarounds to this kind of problem.
 

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Any chance the slide is contacting some part of your clothing or body during recoil and slowing to the point where it doesn't cycle completely?

That was the first thing that came to mind when you stated - "...you index the gun butt against your rib cage..."
 

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I don't THINK so...
Make a "gun" with your fingers. Put the bottom of your wrist/palm against your rib cage, just under your nipple. Now tilt the "gun" about 35-45 degrees to the right (if you're right handed).
That allows the slide to be spaced from your side/ribs, and is also SUPPOSED to be better for ejection of the spent casings.

I probably won't have a chance to go shooting at a range that allows that for several weeks, but I'm definitely going to do some experimentation. If this is a "no go" for the PPQ, for any reason, it's good to know now.
 

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Certainly do some more testing, but if the slide's movement isn't being hindered the only other issue would be lack of a solid hold, due to the position, that may allow the recoil to be absorbed.

What rounds are you using? It's possible they may be on the edge of functioning the gun during normal firing and you may need to try another round with slightly more velocity.
 

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The PPQ requires a good grip...PERIOD. You'll be unable to hold the Q firmly enough in the position your described to ensure 100% reliability....PERIOD.

I just tried holding my Q in the position your described, and attempted to rotate the pistol 35° to 45° clockwise. It hurt my wrist....was totally uncomfortable and awkward....but, maybe its just because I'm a sissy.

If you're planning on not being able to see beyond arms length and can't see your sights, what you're going to have is a wrestling match for the gun. And if that's going to happen, you don't want to give the bad guy any more than necessary for them to grab hold of. In other words, you might want to consider using a 2" barreled stubby revolver.

With a 4" semi-auto, the bad guy will have a really nice piece of real-estate to grab hold of...AND then twist/tilt to rip er' outta your hand. But a 2" barrel......not so much.

Bottom line, if I couldn't see more than arms length, I'd not want to be discharging a firearm, as there could be an innocent somewhere beyond visual range (5 feet).

I think a lot safer bet would be to get a German shepherd.
 

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Seriously. I hope your eyesight macular gegenration does not progress too quickly. Once gone wet there are eye injection and I am sure you know about them.

Rather than using tricky techniques, what I do is hold the handgun inline with my wrist and elbow and level parallel to pointed index finger. Use sufficient trigger finger so at the point of trigger break the trigger is squeezed directly rearward and keep barrel in line and on target.

With this technique at close distance if elbow in contact with your side and at 90 degree you will be able to point shoot pretty well.
This technique also provides very tight and secure hold on the handgun.

May be similar to what you describe but no tilt or angled hold.
I would expect it to work with the ppq.
 

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With macular degeneration many patients have periphal vision but lose clear center vision.
If centeral vision is real poor then consider a j frame. If so bad that you cannot see target and behind, then consider pepper spray, not a firearm.
German Shepard service dog seems like a good option.
 

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Wow, such "helpful" suggestions! You guys are a riot!

You described an issue, the (likely) cause was addressed, and then you respond by calling those guys a riot?

The rearward action of the slide being impeded WILL cause a "jam", in this case, an FTE, which means failure to eject.

Also, holding the gun in a non-standard grip and angle will also cause you to limp wrist the gun, which also can and probably is causing your FTE issue.

But, since we're a riot, I wouldn't expect you to follow any advice.

Sucks about your Mac Degen. My grandmother had it....hell of a thing.

Good luck, sir.
 

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I practice "red zone" drills frequently with my Q45 (and my Navy Q 9mm in the old days).
You are going to have to brace your forearm tightly against your ribcage and kind of lock your elbow.
It isn't limp wristing more like limp forearming and lots of folks who start doing red zone drills experience it.
Try locking your elbow after your drawstroke and see if you can't get three into center mass.

Red zone shooting isn't the easiest skill to acquire. Keep working at it. Remember to lock that elbow and brace your forearm.
Good luck and keep us posted.
 

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I’m with imaoldfart on this, you might want to consider a short barrel revolver as carry gun. It’s probably just me but I wouldn’t go any lighter than a 357. If you don’t want to spend a lot of money and still get a reliable 6 shot 357, look at the EAA Windicator. This is German manufactured gun that you will hate to love, can be found for under $300. Use the PPQ as a range gun where you can experiment with get a sight picture you can work with.
 

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I’m with imaoldfart on this, you might want to consider a short barrel revolver as carry gun. It’s probably just me but I wouldn’t go any lighter than a 357. If you don’t want to spend a lot of money and still get a reliable 6 shot 357, look at the EAA Windicator. This is German manufactured gun that you will hate to love, can be found for under $300. Use the PPQ as a range gun where you can experiment with get a sight picture you can work with.
I carried a .357 revolver, and have fired many full .357 rounds, and would say that it might be a difficult gun to shoot from that position. The trigger pull and trigger travel could be an issue, and the amount of recoil produced would also make it difficult to control the gun and fire more than one round from that position.

Just my opinion.

I would try a different round with more velocity before abandoning the PPQ.
 

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I'd go with a Smith & Wesson Model 49. That's a 5 shot, 2" barrel, 38 caliber. A 38 hollow point at point blank range will do the trick. Of course, bullet placement is paramount. But a .357???? WAY too much recoil.....especially in a stubby 2" J frame. You could move up in frame size, which would provide a larger grip, but you still want the 2" barrel....again, less for the bad guy to grab hold of.

Let's be honest. If things deteriorate to the point that we're talking about not firing until the bad guy is at arms length, that means the bad guy will easily be able to reach for and grab the gun....then the wrestling match is on. Who do you think is gonna win that wrestling match?

In addition, how many shots do you think someone would be able to get off before the gun is wrestled out of their hand? I'm thinking one....maybe two. Will they hit their mark? IMO, a bullet would need to penetrate the bad guys skull (brain cavity) or sever his spinal cord to make this a survivable encounter for the victim. If its anything other than an immediately disabling wound, they'll just keep coming....they may bleed out later, but............

In all honesty, I'm back to the German Shepherd.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
imaoldfart,

Well, I don't think the German Shepard is going to work...but I do have an old S&W revolver (Model 10, I believe) that might fit the bill. I'll have to try that.

By the way, I'm definitely going to replace the front sight on the PPQ with a Meprolight, as you described in a previous post. Sounds like a good choice for visibility for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Xring,

Sounds like you've had experience with Mac Degen...in your family, or perhaps you are in the health field?
 
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