[greenlisterine]

I just looked at two PPKs, one a 22lr and the other a 7.65mm, and I'm wondering if anyone can help me establish what I should be willing to pay.

The .22 is a PPK-L, 97% blueing, with original box, target, and one (somewhat worn out, flat base) magazine. Not sure about matching parts, since .22 PPK-L slides are unmarked. The bore is a little less than perfect, but it might have just been dirty. The internals seemed fine, but I'm no expert. One concern is that the DA hammer pull was heavier than other Walthers I've used (a PPK and PPK/S, both in 9mm kurz). Also, not sure about the year.

The 7.65mm PPK has maybe 95-96% blueing, with original box, target, and cleaning rod, but neither original mag. Serial numbers match, and it's a 1966. There are two little rust spots on the chamber cover, which is otherwise fine. The bore was either dirty or a bit worn, but the internals seemed fine otherwise.

Both had what appeared to be a little rust around the base of the extractor. Lastly, the grips were fine on both, and both had the smooth, unridged triggers. Any thoughts on what each is worth? The seller is asking too much, and I'd love some backup in citing a lower price. Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[Malysh]

Without pics it's really hard to establish value.
What I can add, though, is that boxed PPKs( I assume the 22lr is post WWII although you don't mention the mfg date for this one) seem to have ASKING prices of $1200-$1800 on Gunbroker. Many of them have sat there for a year because they are so highly priced. And, most of them have no rust, maybe thinning finish on the grip front straps or on the high points on the slide.
The 22lrs go for more than the standard 7.65s, and a durals, whether 22lr or 7.65 go for a bit more.
As far as the dural 22lr goes, the left side of the slide (postwar only) should clearly be stamped PPK -L. If it is not, I would be suspect of the slide matching the frame. Have you checked if both components have the same serial number, and have you verified that the frame is aluminum? Only pre 1945 durals, and post 1945-1968 Manurhin marked PPL durals are not marked with the dash L (-L) after the PPK marking. Post WWII/pre 1968 dural PPKs that are marked as Carl Walther products have the PPK-L stamping but the Manurhins are just marked PPK. So that one is suspect to me, from your description.

You did not give us the asking price the seller wants for these, that would also have been helpful.
If it was me, I'd wait for a decent deal to come along, even if it takes some time. I have 5 post WWII/pre 1968 PPKs: a dural 22lr, a dural 7.65, a steel 7.65 and two Amer Eagle non import marked 9mmKs. I didn't pay more than $700. for the last 9mmK American Eagle, mint condition with original box, both mags, manual and tools. The steel 7.65 is mint(no box or accesories - not so important to me but maybe to another collector) and was $450! But you have to be patient to get these deals.

Before I forget, there should be no difference in the DA trigger pull/hammer fall for the 22lr models versus the centerfire PPKs. I can only guess why the one you are checking out is like this. There are differences in the firing pin, safety assembly and the extractor with the 22 models but the trigger pull should feel enough like the centerfires that you wouldn't feel any difference. Sounds like something isn't Kosher with it.

So, let us know the prices and maybe we can be of more help!

Regards,
Malysh

 

[greenlisterine]

Malysh,
Thanks for your insight. The .22 (which is indeed stamped "PPK-L," just no serial # on the slide where there would be one on a 7.65mm or 9mmk) is for $1500; the 7.65mm is for $1100. I don't have pictures, but the marks I described were the only ones I think anyone would notice, since I gave it a pretty thorough inspection. The blueing was worn in the usual places on both: front sides of the slide, and a little on the salient edges. There are also many light scratches that don't interrupt the blue, but show under direct light. These don't really take away from the attractiveness of the pistol, but reveal that it was far from a perfectly kept show piece.

I've seen .22 PPK-L's for sale around the 1500 mark (Simpson Ltd. has a beautiful new-condition one with all accessories for $1595). But a brown finger-rest mag is probably going to set me back nearly $100, and I assume some new springs might be necessary, so in light of the incomplete package etc., I think 1200 or 1300 might be more fair.

As for the 7.65mm, I just don't see that many for sale and don't want to miss it, but with no mags, and the potential to have to replace the chamber cover, I'm disinclined to pay more than $900. Is that fair?

Also, are the smooth triggers an issue vis-a-vis collectability and price? Thanks again, and I'd appreciate any more thoughts from you and others.

 

[Malysh]

Greenlisterine,

The PPK-L slide should have a matching serial number with the aluminum frame. It should be directly under the ejection port on the right side of the slide. If I were you I'd ask the seller about that, although I'd be very surprised if he can provide the explanation. It's possible they forgot to stamp it at the factory, but highly unlikely. It's also possible somebody damaged the original slide badly enough that they hated the way it looked and found a replacement. I doubt you will ever find out for sure.

My 22lr dural has a mismatched slide, and it had to be a replacement, for whatever reason I don't know. It's marked PPK/S Cal 22lR and Interarms on the opposing side I didn't care because there were approximately 7200 22 lr durals and 22000 7.65 durals made after WWII according to Dieter Marschall, a well respected Walther expert and archivist who's been studying and collecting Walthers in Germany for a long time. I would recommend his books to you. So even though my dural 22lr is a mismatch, with only 7200 of the post WWII aluminum frame 22lrs made, it was worth acquiring at $300.00 at a local gun show. All my others have matching serial numbers and are mint or near mint.

As far as replacing the chamber cover, if you mean what many of us call the barrel hood, forget that. It's an integral part of the frame. The barrel is pressed into it from the front and then pinned. So if I have your description correctly, the only thing you can do is remove the rust if it's just on the surface and live with it.

As far as magazines go, you can find factory Walther PPK magazines with flat bottoms on Gunbroker and other websites for reasonable prices and then buy a factory brown plastic finger extension from Earl's Repair Service in MA. for $25.00. If you want a complete factory new 7.65 mag with the brown finger extension, I think Earl charges $89.00 plus shipping. He also has new 22lr magazines with or without finger extensions that I've seen guys buy used at auctions for $100+ when Earl has factory new ones for $100 with the black finger ext. and $110 for with the brown finger extension.

Per the smooth trigger. This is not a collecting concept. German made PPKs always have smooth triggers, be they made from 1933-1945 or post WWII production. I assume your referrence concerns Interarms and S&W US mfg. PPKs. Do they have grooved triggers?

There are at least two 7.65 PPKs for sale on Gunbroker right now. I am not sure I remember correctly, but both are a good bit less than the prices you were quoted. And they sound like they are in better cosmetic condition, too.

I can't advise you what to do as far as prices. All I can tell you is I would personally not buy either of these pistols given the descriptions at those prices. You have to decide what makes you happy, life is short!
I wish you great good luck!

Regards,
Malysh

 

[Malysh]

I should clarify something - all the post war European PPKs have the serial number on the slide below the ejection port, and on the right side of the frame just behind the trigger guard, whether they are 22lr, 7.65, 9mmk, and whether they are steel framed or dural.

 

[searcher451]

I've seen .22 PPK-L's for sale around the 1500 mark (Simpson Ltd. has a beautiful new-condition one with all accessories for $1595).

Just took a look at the PPK-L .22 that Simpson's Ltd. is offering, and it's the real deal. If you are considering paying as much as $1,200 to $1,300 for a gun with some issues, why not pony up a few extra dollars and get one that is jack-in-the-box perfect? I know ... easy for me to say, spending your money and all. But if this gun is on your must-have list, it would make sense to get one that is top-of-the-line ... and the Simpson's offering is certainly that.

 

[perf marine ky]

Afternoon Men!
I have owned several PPk's, NIB, 100% condition without the slide being numbered to gun, seems as this happened in mid-60's? I think most were the Dural models also!

Dale

 

[Malysh]

Afternoon Men!
I have owned several PPk's, NIB, 100% condition without the slide being numbered to gun, seems as this happened in mid-60's? I think most were the Dural models also!

Dale

Hi Dale!

We appreciate all the input. My experiences were different - I've had a total of 11 PPKs, all told. None of my durals or steel framed pistols were missing a serial number on the slide, so I guess we have to assume this did occur, but was not the norm....

Aside from this, if I were greenlisterine, I wouldn't be buying either PPK he's been offered with rust and wear, at top shelf prices.

Still got a mint set of PPK 7,65 grips left, or have you sold them all?

Regards,
Mike

 

[perf marine ky]

Mike,
I have three sets of grips left in 7,65 & one set used in 380. I agree the unnumbered slides were not norm. I believe in Rankins book Vol.3 he states that ''most'' slides were numbered.
The asking price on those pcs. are a might stiff & I agree with you there also.
Dale