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PPK too small for hand: How to combat slide bite

52K views 56 replies 34 participants last post by  German_Gun_Nut 
#1 ·
I shot my PPK 380ss for the first time, it racked me across the hand. I'm about to take a 12lber to it. any ideas on how to keep the slide from the top of my hand?:mad:

RMC
 
#3 · (Edited)
RMC, you've just experienced a "love bite" from your PPK. It's a common thing with this fantastic, wonderful handgun which certainly does not warrant a 12 pounder being anywhere near it. It bit you because you were not holding it right.

Try this. No, better yet, do this and both your hand and your PPK will thank you. Go ahead, go and get it. Yes, right now before you read this any further. Go get it and hold it in your shooting hand. I'll wait...



Got it there? OK, good. Hold it as if you're ready to fire. Now, stop right there and observe the position of your thumb. See that? That's not right - and you're going to get bit that way.

Now, slide your thumb down ever so slightly until it overlaps your middle finger slightly. Move your thumb down so the pad of your thumb lightly rests on the top edge of your middle finger. It might feel a little strange at first but that's the way one must hold their PPK or you're going to get it. Here's some pictures to demonstrate:


In this photo, you can see the "natural" way most people who haven't had much experience with PPKs hold their guns. It's a natural human grasp and feels normal. But the PPK was designed to be small and the fact that the barrel also acts as the guide rod (a genius of design) dictates a low slide. The design keeps things small, simple, and more in line with the radius bone of the forearm, which promotes accuracy. However, it also allows for "slide bite." The red arrow I put in the picture shows where the slide will get me if I hold my PPK this way.


Here's a view of the same grip. You can clearly see where I'd get a nice double bite if I held her this way. That slide comes back viciously and mercilessly when it cycles a round, and human flesh will suffer if it's in the way:


Now, if you hold your PPK the way I described above, with your thumb slightly overlapping your middle finger on the grip, it can't get you. Try holding your PPK like this:


Same grip method, from the back. As you can see, there's no way it can get you.


Your soft tender flesh is now out of the way of the unyielding steel and your PPK will now give you a lifetime of joy. I hope this helps.

-Pilotsteve
 
#25 ·
RMC, you've just experienced a "love bite" from your PPK. It's a common thing with this fantastic, wonderful handgun which certainly does not warrant a 12 pounder being anywhere near it. It bit you because you were not holding it right.

Try this. No, better yet, do this and both your hand and your PPK will thank you. Go ahead, go and get it. Yes, right now before you read this any further. Go get it and hold it in your shooting hand. I'll wait...



Got it there? OK, good. Hold it as if you're ready to fire. Now, stop right there and observe the position of your thumb. See that? That's not right - and you're going to get bit that way.

Now, slide your thumb down ever so slightly until it overlaps your middle finger slightly. Move your thumb down so the pad of your thumb lightly rests on the top edge of your middle finger. It might feel a little strange at first but that's the way one must hold their PPK or you're going to get it. Here's some pictures to demonstrate:


In this photo, you can see the "natural" way most people who haven't had much experience with PPKs hold their guns. It's a natural human grasp and feels normal. But the PPK was designed to be small and the fact that the barrel also acts as the guide rod (a genius of design) dictates a low slide. The design keeps things small, simple, and more in line with the radius bone of the forearm, which promotes accuracy. However, it also allows for "slide bite." The red arrow I put in the picture shows where the slide will get me if I hold my PPK this way.


Here's a view of the same grip. You can clearly see where I'd get a nice double bite if I held her this way. That slide comes back viscously and mercilessly when it cycles a round, and human flesh will suffer if it's in the way:


Now, if you hold your PPK the way I described above, with your thumb slightly overlapping your middle finger on the grip, it can't get you. Try holding your PPK like this:


Same grip method, from the back. As you can see, there's no way it can get you.


Your soft tender flesh is now out of the way of the unyielding steel and your PPK will now give you a lifetime of joy. I hope this helps.

-Pilotsteve
This is exactly the way to hold a Walther! I hold the 1911 and the M9 in the SAME type of grip.
The "race shooters" like to parallel their thumbs next to the slide. I never learned that way and I see no reason to adopt it. Often a slide or safety with thumbs parallel (along the slide line or above the slide line) gets kicked into the WRONG position at the WRONG time.
The Race Gun Shooters are not combat shooters.
 
#5 ·
mentalsigness pretty well pegged it. I have never had the bite, but I don't grip high enough to receive it either. I have intentionally gripped the gun high enough that it would have, if fired, and it doesn't feel right to me. I can see where people with large fleshy hands might have a problem if not careful.

I have read where larger grips help some ~ again I can't say that from experience. You should be able to look at your grip before firing and tell.

The S&Ws seem to be a mixed bag from what owners have posted concerning reliability, but, S&W will work out any issues and a lot of owners are happy with them. I would not be opposed to owning one of the S&Ws and the extended beaver tail is supposed to correct this.

Good luck with your gun. I would say give it some time and check your grip before firing until it becomes natural to you.
 
#7 ·
And the larger tang used on the S&W version does a great job of putting your hand out of harm's way. Can't help it, guys. Still love my S&W PPK/S in stainless.
 
#28 ·
Nope, this PPK is to small, I need to replace it with a larger frame 380.
Looked at the Barretta couger 380, It would be allright but no stainless, S&W bodyguard380 might be ok. what ideas do you guys have?

RMC
I personally think you are quitting to early on the PPK. My brother has very large hands. Because of that when he grabs his PPK his hand is more than adequate at controlling it with a 4 finger hold. The bottom of the grip mag sets right on his little finger. His thumb goes all the way around the second finger of his hand to the front of the gripjust under the trigger gaurd. He has such a grip on it, it looks like a hand with a gun built in! He has never had a slide bite from his PPK. If your concern is for a bigger gun that you can grip the whole thing easier you are going to give up a lot of conceal ability. The .380 has way enough knock down power for a short and life threatening situation. Making the gun bigger for you and staying with .380 might get the question why? If the .380 is to small in the first place check out the new Kimber super small .45. If you need a bigger grip fill it with bigger ammo.

I'll say it again though, handle and load your PPK correctly and you will find why it is the caliber of choice in most all other police and infantry of foreign countries. If ever there was a need for a PPK it is concealed carry. Tee shirt, Blue Jeans no one will know you have it. No plastic to break, discolor or malfunction. When you’re looking for strength in a very small flat package that will push a 9mm bullet of 90 grains 1000 fps over and over again, you found it. You can’t beat an all steel PPK. My preference are the Interarms licensed PPK's made for Interarms by Ranger Arms here in the USA. Much smoother (blended) than the Smith which has sharp edges and corners. If you are carrying as small as you can that would be the last place I would like to test the strength of a plastic gun. I sent my PPK to XS sights and had a big dot installed. I carry in a Galco D619H in my right front pocket. It is gone in there and very secure. It has 1000's of rounds through it. It has been dropped kicked across the concrete thrown and still, it hits right where it's pointed. No misfires jams or stove pipes. A 9mm diameter hole is plenty when well placed shots are put down and, penetration is not an issue with FMJ. Place your shot well, hold on your sight and fire again and again then, get out of there. IMO there just is not a finer deep cover pistol. I personally know it will save your life even after it is kicked across a concrete dock and right into the salt water. I went in after it. One shot to the BG’s upper thigh went through and through. One big dude… lot’s of blood, down and not getting up. Screaming in pain. That was a one shot stop in my book.
 
#17 ·
RMC, I think it's becoming clear to me that you've been snake bitten by your PPK and you've lost all love for what is one of the most perfectly designed and well-built handguns in history. It's a shame, but in a way, I know how you feel. I'll explain.

There's a lot of truth to the fact that either a gun fits your hand or it doesn't. I suspect you have very large hands with short fingers. This probably explains a lot, but not everything regarding your getting bit by the PPK. Have you tried firing it the way I described - with your thumb slightly overlapping your middle finger? I really don't see how it could bite you that way unless you're doing something very wrong and trying to shoot it "ghetto thug" style. "Ghetto thug" style is the inappropriate practice of shooting while holding your hand cocked 90 degrees to the left, with the ejection port facing straight up. Not only are you guaranteed to get slide-bitten that way, but you'd deserve it.

Knowing that you're a responsible and properly taught operator of a handgun, I'm sure that you're not trying to shoot that way... right? Nevertheless, when I was in the market for my first handgun, I went through the gun store and sampled just about every weapon in every case. Every Beretta, Glock, Smith & Wesson, etc. None of them really felt right. It wasn't until the PPK was placed in my hand did the proverbial "Click!" occur. I swear, it was if someone took a mold of my hand and made the PPK just for my anatomical dimensions. It was perfect for me.

That's something every person who ever shops for a handgun should do. Try them out. Try the fit. It either fits or it doesn't. For example, my father has gigantic moose paws for hands and couldn't possibly fire my PPK without getting bit no matter how he were to hold it. In fact, I wouldn't even let him shoot it because it was clear he was going to get torn up by the slide. Are your hands really that big? If you've got normal/average sized hands and are getting bit by your PPK, you're just not doing something right.

However, this may be a moot point because I really suspect you've lost interest in your PPK. The love you once felt is gone because she cut your hand. Any further attempts to console you might be futile. If you're willing to try again, to try to save your lost love, you may well be able to salvage the relationship. It can be a very, very happy one if you treat her like the fickle, beautiful lady she is.

But if not... if your heart has turned to ice over your PPK and you're suffering "irreconcilable differences", then by all means trade her for another lady. I just hope the new marriage works out as well as this one can - if you try...

-Pilotsteve
 
#18 ·
PS, your explanation and pics are wonderful; great job.
I'm wondering if something else besides 'slide bite' is going on, tho' I agree that the Smith version should solve that issue, despite the esthetics.

PP series guns in .380 tend to have a sharp recoil; due to the blowback design, the slide is moving very fast and comes to an abrupt, stinging stop when it hits the frame. It always felt like smacking a rock with an iron bar. It is the price you pay for firing the more powerful cartridge; the .32 ACP and the .22 lr PPs don't have this issue.
Many of the other guns the OP mentions are also blowback, but the SIG P238 is a locked-breech mini-1911 pistol, and it's recoil is less rappy than the PPK in .380. Actually, so is a Ruger LCP...
It is probably also a good idea to ask if the OP is an experienced handgunner. Small, powerful handguns are a hard way to get started. The .340 SC Smith with magnum loads is NOT the solution to this problem....:D
Moon
 
#20 ·
It is probably also a good idea to ask if the OP is an experienced handgunner. Small, powerful handguns are a hard way to get started. The .340 SC Smith with magnum loads is NOT the solution to this problem....:D
Moon
Good advice, 1/2 Moon. Not only that, but there's no need for anything that powerful. The .380 is more than enough bullet for protection purposes. Too bad the original poster of this thread does not reply as often as he should. We're here to help him and I'm feeling the feeling that we're speaking to either deaf or inattentive ears.

In terms of the PPK having such a sharp recoil... I'm working on that one. Soon I'll post a complete physical study of the entire firing sequence and there may be some surprises. I've been doing the math for two days now and it will be serious geek fodder when complete.

-Pilotsteve
 
#22 ·
Pilotsteve, thank you for the discussion of hammer bite. I have had various PPK
models since 1957 and have suffered with the "web tracks" to the extent that I gave my PPK to my bride. I bought the Smith version to solve the problem. With you description of the solution I can now get my old one back (if I bribe her) with a Sig 238. Thanks.......Stay safe!
 
#23 · (Edited)
For those who worry about the knock down capability of the .380, remember it runs right there with a .38 Special. Using FMJ, it will definitely penetrate heavy clothing. If you do your part the result should be a 9 mill hole through and through and the loss of blood will be good enough for you to escape or track. Many fur hunters use FMJ exactly for that reason there is a significant blood trail and the faster they run the more the loss of blood. The .380 works. With the grip Pilotsteve just explained you can shoot the heavy loads without slide bite.
 
#24 ·
I shoot my PPK a lot it is my primary carry gun do to deep cover light clothing issues. I have tried em all, plastic hide aways, Derringers you name it. I think all PPK owners will agree there simply is not a better carry gun out there for reliable deep cover in the heat wearing a tee shirt and blue jeans. I carried my PPK off and on for a few years. Everyone was trying to push me into the plastic things. The only place for plastic on a gun is in the tip of the projectile. I dropped one of these plastic toy guns on a dead run and... the super tough no holds barred aluminum rail insert space age plastic slide cracked. I was able to retrieve it as the BG fired (missed whoa) I returned fire and the slide flew right out the back. Just missed my head. for a Few onces more and much more cost effective I'll take the trim smooth pocket PPK. The sites are awful. Had XS put a Big Dot on it. Very effective to 50+ feet.

I have only one complaint and you just fixed it. After some practice I find your grip fast and natural. Solid hold and it is now instinctive to use. Thanks big time Pilotsteve!!! Not a bite since.
 
#26 ·
The Race Gun Shooters are not combat shooters.
mehheh.

Sooo true, John!

When th' ship hits th' sand, that combat training seems to kick in. Glad of it, too!!!
 
#32 · (Edited)
PPK slide bite

MoonWolf, Pretty obvious we aren’t going to change your mind. I would say you posted that to the wrong forum. I think we like PPK's on this forum. Taking a 12 lbs. hammer to such a fine example of the 1900's machining and inventiveness is probably not something any of us would do. Pilot Steve gave it to ya. You don't shoot all hand guns the same way. Take a box stock 1911 and a loose passive grip and the first time it stove pipes most blame the gun. Hold it tight and it works great. 2 fingers and a thumb is all it takes to hold a PPK and mine has NEVER misfired after 1000’s of rounds.

History dictated a need for a powerful very small automatic that would hide well function flawlessly and, be reasonably accurate. The PPK fits that bill so well that I carry mine as primary when its scorching hot and A 6" full custom build Forged receiver and Billet slide Clark custom .460 Rowland when I am wearing my Duster.

HUGE difference yes indeed. If you were trying to buy a small pistol I guess I would have to ask why? You just bought the finest there is and said your beefy hand won't like it. I think you will find practice with diligence for a week or so before you trade that PPK for the plastic junk that the 2000 era shows us where we are headed. If your hand is that big you have to learn to use your hide out. You can’t get slide bite from a PPK unless you ask for it. If your hand is big, even though a PPK kicks, you only need three fingers to hold it. Nothing (except the modern plastic garbage) even comes close to the conceal ability and speed of draw than a properly used PPK. Just remember Ranger arms custom made about every PPK in the USA today right here. Ranger arms was known for their custom gun ability and Walther "advisors” made sure the PPK made here was exactly like the PPK made there.

The PPK/s is a micro longer and might help but, it was made with the intent to beat a legal issue on exactly what you are complaining about. When the grip gets longer I don’t care how much, the draw will slow and the back strap may begin to show. If you don't want a small conceal then tuck in a 1911 and have at. They have worked for 100 years. To those who think ballistic gelatin is something you eat and a .380 packs no punch try this. Take out the stupid hollow points they are worthless. This is not an expansion test. A FMJ .380 will go right straight through many, many inches of gelatin. It will go through all kinds of clothing and the .380 round has been out there forever in every country (and still is) but ours. It sounds to me like you are a large man so buy a large gun if the little pee shooter is too small. Mine drops right in my right front pocket holster and I have seen what an FMJ .380 will do for real more than once. There are a bunch of policeman in Spain that would also wonder why we think we need all that horse power..... every time. There are no guaranteed 1 shot stoppers. Just well-placed shots and good penetration. A .355" hole all the way through your body anywhere is going to bleed… a lot. Empty the PPK on the bad guy and leave. Let's see say you hit him 4 times with FMJ. that would be the equivalent of a 1/2 inch hole leaking and loosing blood very quickly. There will be a blood trail for sure and if you did your part, you will walk away alive.

Bob
 
#33 ·
I just picked up a Stainless S&W PPK/s 9mm Kurz. (I've been carrying a blue 1982 PP 9mm Kurz for over 20 years with Pachmur grips) I got the PPK/S for #300, because I am negotiating also for a 1952 Manurhin PP 7.65, in the box, without a magazine. The finish looks to be 100%. They want $300 for it. However, I have offered #250. It is part of an estate sale and they need to get a hold of the guy for his OK. I have a 1955 Manurhin PP 7.65, which is just a shooter with the correct magazines. The finish is rather poor and I just carry it around in the truck.

The PPK/S has already been sent in and has the ping mark on the tang. It also has a dimple in the feed ramp which might be a problem

Also the 1955 Manurhin PP has two letter groups X out LP and By. Maybe Martin can tell me if these were police markings. The pp was exported to HK inc ARL VA 22201 on the strap
 

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