[VicM]

When I bought this gun new the de-cocker didn't work.  (Why I didn't hand it back to the dealer is another story.)  It's a 2001 .380 Walther USA.  When I try to de-cock it, no amount of force can get the lever down.  But if I pull the hammer a bit further back with my thumb and attempt to de-cock, it works.  Having too much time on my hands, I am going to take it apart and attempt to fix it.  Don't laugh (yet).
Any ideas or tips greatfully accepted.

VicM

 

[Beretta92]

With the slide removed try deprssing the hammer release #013 toward the bottom with your finger while the PPK is Cocked it should drop the hammer, The Safety should do this as well if there isn't a problem with it. Is it a S&W manufactured Gun or Interarms?
Also is it a PPK or PPK/S?
B92

 

[VicM]

It's a PPK I bought new in March of 2001. On the left of the slide it says Walther, made in USA, under license of Karl Walther Waffenfabrik; on the right side Walther USA LLC, Springfield, MA. The manual doesn't have the word Interarms anywhere either. Nor S&W.

With the slide off I could see that part 013 is pushed down by the safety lever and releases the hammer to fall, but I absolutely could not press hard enough, even with the blade of a screwdriver, to drop the hammer. If I pull the hammer back a little bit from its natural cocked position, then part o13 will pivot down and the hammer will drop. So the problem is probably in the hammer area, not the safety/de-cocking lever.

There are plenty of possibilities: in the cocked position the hammer is not as far back as it should be; there is an improperly machined part or parts that prevent correct lever action, i.e., the lever can't get past center.

This pistol shoots fine and with maybe 2000 rounds through it has never once failed to fire and cycle. Thanks for the reply. Any further ideas (call a real gunsmith!) much appreciated. I know there are a lot of folks who just like to shoot and some who like to shoot and know how it all functions.

VicM

 

[michael t]

That sounds like one of the early S&W during change over Interarms with S&W markings(address). Might try to find a gunsmith in your area. Make sure he has some PPK experiance or write to Smith and explain problem. The may say mail in and we will fix.

 

[banddr2]

I have the same problem with a German pp that is very used. The problem with mine is that the sear or "cocking peice" is not high enough in the cocked position for the decocking lever to push it forward, thus releasing the hammer. I have replaced the following to no avail:
Hammer, cocking peice(which should not be replaced since the pins that hold it in are press fitted), hammer, hammer pin and decocking lever. Since none of those worked I am flustered. It could be that the pivot holes in the frame are worn too loose and things are not operating as tightly as they should.

Like you said on yours, if you pull back slightly on the hammer before dropping the lever down, it decocks safely. The only bad thing is that it is a two handed operation to safely decock the weapon..

Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

[VicM]

Hello banddr2,

Tonight I took the hammer out and the "release piece" part 013 in the above drawing. Examining the angle that the release piece touches part 015 and examining how the release piece was made, my first conclusion is that my release piece is defective. The critical point where those two parts touch is not formed properly: the shape of the release piece prevents it from pushing the cocking piece upward - in my PPK the release piece pushes directly on the edge of the cocking piece and the cocking piece pushes directly back! There's no chance of motion of the cocking piece upward which causes the hammer to fall harmlessly on the safety block.

In my case it looks like the maker of the release piece didn't put that critical grind on the critical spot correctly. With a small curve filed or Dremel tooled at the proper angle, the release piece will touch the cocking piece with a cam action that will drop the hammer on the safety. If you take a very careful look at your PP you may also see a lack of cam action. I'll let you know if I'm guessing right after I do some filing.



VicM

 

[Beretta92]

Be Carefull!!
Your Pistol Is an Early S&W, And I'm Sure they'd make it right..
This coming from a guy that would dremel it right on his own pistol..
Who would Cook his Pistol & Grind it down..
Let us know how it came out!!
B92

 

[VicM]

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Yup, I took too much metal away and the hammer still does not fall. But it's better than it was in that with the pistol cocked I can easily push the safety lever down and block off the firing pin which seems a lot safer that manually letting the hammer down with the safety in "fire" position. Tomorrow I'll order the part from S&W. On the bright side, I appreciate the PPK more as I learn more about how it functions. I'll report sometime next week. Thanks to all for your input.

VicM

 

[VicM]

Walther USA will not sell me the part because it is a "factory install only" item. I wish I had taken a good picture of it before I worked on it because from the factory it looked like the worker who made it just rubbed it one time on a grinding wheel and called it good: the ground area wasn't smooth nor was it even. I'll try to make one from scratch.

VicM

 

[banddr2]

Thanks for your reply VicM, I was out of town for a couple of days. I did what your did and it did not work. It seems the decocking lever is not wide enough to engage the cocking peice. So I ordered one from Numerick Gun Parts, it came and was even worse and totally useless. I am still not sure if the problem is that the decocking lever is not wide enough to engage or if the cocking peice is just not high enough when cocked.

By the way, many PP and PPK owners remove this peice altogether and just thumb drop the hammer after the safety is engaged. I, however would still like things to work as intended. I will get my PP out again and start puzzling over it some more.

 

[VicM]

Hi Banddr2, Apparently there is very little difference between those release pieces, good and bad. I did some tracings of mine before I ruined it, but I'll try to get an "aftermarket part". (Am mighty new to home gun-tinkering.) When you look at your gun from the side and observe the angles between the two pieces, does it look to you like the release piece is pushing the sear too directly towards the sear's pivot pins instead of slightly up? That's what I saw. There's no way that the holes for the trigger pin and the sear pin are not 100% dead on accurate. I haven't had other ppk's in my hand, but some of them work perfectly, and I think the failure is the angle of the grind on that release piece. Hmmmmmm.....why don't they manufacture that piece all in one operation? Mine was surely hand ground on the critical edge. Not giving up yet.

VicM

 

[Beretta92]

My Known Good one is also hand ground in the area were it touches too..
Good Luck!!

 

[banddr2]

VicM, yes, the lever pushes straight forward on the sear instead of up, which just binds it in place. When i tried to remove material to adjust the angle it did not leave enough of the lever sticking up in the frame to engage the safety lever. Unless there is something I am missing here, it looks like we need an over sized lever to correct the problem. That is probably why S&W won't sell you one, because they have bins full of them until they find one the right size.

 

[y-not]

Hi I am new to this forum and to a ppks that my wife just bought new. The decocker would fail to decock after about 200 rounds. We sent it back to Walther, and they replaced the hammer. Got it back, and 150 rounds later same thing happened. I have found that if the decocker is on when the slide comes back, the hammer stays back until you turn decocker off. Then hammer falls and hits the firing pin. After a very good cleaning and lube it seams better. Has this happened to anyone else? Any suggestions?

 

[banddr2]

Yes, send it back immediately. The hammer should never fall when the safety is off. That sound very dangerous. What do you have? Is it a Smith & Wesson, or Interarms, or German, or Manhurin??? I think you have a similar situation to ours in that the decocking lever is not working properly. When the slide is back and the safety is on it should either drop the hammer when going forward (safety still on), or not allow the slide to travel all the way forward (if it is malfuntioning). The second scenario is what happens to mine, which may be what is happening to you. The safety lever is not allowing it to return to battery, and you have to turn the safety off in order for the slide to go into battery, but the hammer is already being decocked, just that the cocking peice and hammer drop lever are binding up.

If it is a new gun, definitely send it back. You should be able to load it with the safety on, and the hammer will safely drop as the slide returns to battery.

 

[y-not]

Thanks I will call wather on monday and see what they want to do

 

[banddr2]

Y-not, please let me know what you find out.

 

[y-not]

banddr2
Walther said to send it back to them and they would try again to fix. My wife is pissed as she dons't want to give up her gun for another 3 or 4 weeks. She is going to email them tonight and see what she can do. I will let you know.

 

[banddr2]

The long waits is what forced me to do my own smithing, but that's because I am impatient (and my ppks is way past warrenty at 40 years old).  You are doing the right thing.  But let them know your Pixxed and getting tired of sending it back, so they get someone on it who will do it right.

 

[y-not]

what my wife sent Walther
I received my PPKS back from Smith and Wesson on February 4th. I used it on the range and fired 150 rounds. When I was cleaning the gun, I noticed that when the decock is on, and you pull the slide back, the hammer stays back. When you take the safety off, it fires a round! The only way to get the hammer back to the safe position is to play with it carefully. It is still an unsafe gun, which your company supposedly fixed for the last 4 weeks. I am not an expert with guns, but this is not right!!!!

I purchased a PPKS because of the reputation of Smith and Wesson. I was informed that they worked out all of the kinks. Apparently not!!

As you can tell I am very angry about this problem, because my husband spoke with one of your so-called customer reps on the phone today. This person was very unhelpful, and seemed to indicated that my husband was bothering him. We were told to wait for a call back ticket and send the gun back. Are you people crazy?!?!?! I purchased this gun in December and so far I have only had it in my possession for a month. I spent a lot of money for an UNRELIABLE and VERY UNSAFE GUN!!!! I am not going to send this gun back and let you have it for another 4-6 weeks, while I have no personal protection.

I expect a real live person to contact me, who cares about my problem. Hopefully you will stand behind your great reputation?!?!?!

A Very Unsatisfied Customer!