[cigarman]

went to a gunshow today and the guy who had the PP Super in 9X18 still had it for $539 +tax and transfer. I bought other pistols from him—always nice and decent prices so I stopped and talked.

Later he quoted me 425 with box, papers and 4 mags all in perfect condition. Almost perfect finish—two scratches on the right side of the slide and an abrasion on the upper part of the grip on that side.

Serial is 137XX, Interarms import with only a tiny import mark on the left side of the frame “ Interarms Alex, VA”and a “76” stamped on the barrel shroud with the other proofmarks; my other one is a .380 with the Interarms starburst logo on the slide below the port and an IA on the barrel with a serial of 1011XX.

Any leads on 9X18 police ammo???

 

[Beretta92]

Did You Snag it Up??
Getting Brass For the 9x18 Police would be pretty tough, Wonder if .380 brass or .30 Carbine brass could be used?
$425 sounds like a Deal!! If Your up for the ammo availabliity problem with the 9x18 Police..
You'd think this round or it's brass would be available in Europe
Good luck!! CigarMan!!
B92

 

[cigarman]

Yes I did B92.  Got a line on the ammo also from a WTB post and from a friend who loves the PP Super.

Thaks for the encouraging words.
I have religated the .380 to Safe Queen status and so am really excited about this one.

Lately I have run across more deals that I have available funds.  Looks like I may have to look through the CZs and dispose of a couple.

As a sidenote I have seen a number of differences between the two specimens I have  (grips, placement/design of the decocker among other points).  I will have to take some pics and show them here.  I have never seen anything about the changes and iterations of this pistol--I thought all were "identical"; but having and "early" and a "late" model and looking at the differences may be the high point of this purchase.

Most interesting is the difference in datestamps. I wonder if anyone could share their sreial/datestamp info.

Love this hobby...

 

[jehzsa]

Hello Cigarman,
Here, http://www.p38forum.com/ is the comment that Mr. Reichert made regarding the use in Australia of .380 cartridges in lieu of 9x18 Ultra. On the reloading section. My thread on new brass availability.

Also further down, a gentleman identified as Ramon states,
"Quoting the book, Handloader's Manual of Cartidge Conversions by John J. Donnelly, page 909, uses a 100 grain bullet with 6 grains of Unique.

Donnelly converts .38 ACP brass for the Ultra cartridge."

Which leads me to think that 6 grains of Unique on a SilverTip bullet will give plenty of oommpphh to the average werewolf breakfast.

 

[cigarman]

Hello my Friend,

For DISCUSSION sake ( not for you J, but for anyone who may search out this topic and then take it as gospel...)

There are a number of pistols that have more than one cartridge possibility: the .22 short, long, long rifle; 38 spec and .357 magnum, etc.

It would seem, dependent upon variations in sizing of the casings, bullet seating, etc (with bullet diameter as an non-issue with the .355 size consistent between the 9X17 and 9X18 Ultra) that there may be some .380 ammo that would seat in a 9X18 U chamber.

Does anyone have a micrometer/guage, some .380 and 9X18 U ammo, time and patience to do some comparisons?

What would be the fallout from using the .380 in the 9X18 U pistols? Casing size is the same diameter and pressures are less--would it erode the chamber/bore area? Does this happen in .357 pistols shooting .38 special (or any other similar .44 or other combo)?

 

[cigarman]

BTW, my pistol has an obliteration stamp (cirlce with spikes) over the police acceptance stamp on the right side of the frame. The only think I can make out appears to the the front claws of a lion/cat, facing left. anyone know what Police this signifies?

 

[Beretta92]

cigarman On an Auto the round rests on the step in the chamber to give propper headspacing, If you were to feed a 9x17/9mmkurtz/.380 into your chamber from the magazine it would be held by the extractor but not indexed on the step in the barrel , There would be a 1mm gap I assume, In a revolver the ammo is supported by the head of the casing in the cylinder & or the step in the cylinder, I have a 9mm Ruger SP101 & it can be shot without it's moonclips because of the indexing in the cylinder..
I was looking at some .30 Carbine at my Buddies from his M1 Carbine & it looked to be the same exact outside case diameter as a .380acp, It's possible it could be trimmed down & used??? Also .223 Remington case is right at the same diameter too, on the backhalf before it necks down
I'm not realy into reloading anymore but have some knowledge on the topic..
And I do have a very nice set of digi calipers but don't have any 9x18 ultra to measure, But I do have the .380 though!!
I'll check some cassings from the 30 carbine next range setion, It's much longer & would have to be trimmed alot, But it could be done, If it's the exact diameter inside & out.
It might be your answer, Have you looked at the 9x18 makarov Round as well?
Good Luck!!
STAY SAFE!! See ya at the SIG Forum
B92 [email protected]

 

[Beretta92]

Found This by Doing a Google Search!!
Hope it helps!!
Also It also looks like jehzsa is a guru on this cartridge as I saw his replies over at the HighRoad.
He has three of them..
Good Luck
B92

 

[cigarman]

Itereresting. Looks like the sizes are closer than I thought although the diameter differences of the cases may be problematic if the pressure would cause the case to crack.

Yes, Jehzsa is the friend I was referring to in the post. He has been my Mentor through the learnings I have undertaken on the Walthers and other pistols. We also have an interesting pursuit in the ASAI One-Pro, a wonderful Swiss machine in .45.

thanks you have given much in this pursuit. Looks like we have lots in common--SIGS 220, 225, 229, H&K P7, but alas, I have no Berettas. You will have to school me on that family.

Later, My heart just slowed from watching my boys beat the guys from the west...

 

[Beretta92]

Your Welcome!!
Have a Cigar & ponder were does jehzsa aquire that Hirtenberger 9mm Police ammo. Also looks like Fiochi might be importing some if you can find it..
Good luck!!

 

[cigarman]

Just ordered Dynamit/Nobel 9mm Ultra.  50 round boxes for $8.75 1000 rounds for $165.

I'm golden now!!!

 

[jehzsa]

You are on your way, Cigarman. One thing you'll notice is that compared to the Mak with an equivalent round, the PP Super kicks a lot less. Mostly due to the contour of the grip. The slight differences in size and weight also help.

The person that probably will identify the markings on your baby is Mr. Dieter H. Marschall. You can post the question directed to him ("Herrn Marschall! PP Super data requested" will do) at the PP & PPK forum or better yet e-mail him. He will require a full description of all the markings including the complete serial number. Reason is Mr. Marschall set out sometime ago to reconstruct the Walther records that the Nazis destroyed before the end of the war. And he's probably the human encyclopedia regarding all things Walther. A very considerate gentleman. In the true Teutonic sense of the word. I believe that one of his books has very detailed info on all things PP Super.

Btw, now that you have the Geco, give me some time to do a search on the Fiocchi. Will post the link.

Which leads me to Beretta92's posts. No, no guru here. Actually, very little is known about the Ultra cartridge. Nazis, Walther and Geco managed to destroy most, if not all of the existing records. And the rest, the Russians either do not have or will not tell that they have it. Which in this day and age, seems like a classic oxymoron. So do not trust the specs on the diagram. For one, most just don't add up. And to tell you the truth, without the aid of a caliper, I don't see a difference between the three makes, Geco, Fiocchi and Hirtenberger. They all look the same size to me! Btw, only Fiocchi calls it "Police".

The last, known to me commercial supplier of the Hirtenberger 9x18 Ultra round, is a very gentle soul with great discriminating taste located in the West. Don't remember his particulars now but he was a regular at the big shows. Supply is dried up. Last checked about a year or so ago. And my supply is really thin. They are a hoot to shoot!

Btw, someone in another forum stated that he received a US catalog that included new, unfired 9x18U brass. So it is to be found somewhere here. I'm still looking. Will post info here if I do find the supplier. And thank you for your observations on the feasibility of firing .380 brass in a 9x18U chamber. With me, the fascination with the 9x18U round is more of a loyalty thing. An old, loyal friend.

 

[jehzsa]

Fiocchi 9x18 Police here, http://www.shootnhunt.com/catalog....02.html

Well what do you know? I paid $19.99 about 7 or 8 years ago. Good to know something went down.

Also here, http://www.georgia-arms.com/miso_loaded_ammo.htm
No price shown.

 

[cigarman]

Some thoughts:

It appears, from the dimensions of the cartridges, that in a manner similar to the .38/377 magnum and .44 combos that the sizes of the high powered cartridges are slightly greater to prevent the 9X18 Ultra from being fired in the .380 chamber (or .38 in the ,357), but nothing precludes the reverse.

the dimension (length 0.7mm) will not prevent extraction (I tried it dry in the pistol) and the increase in width would not be so great as to cause case splitting.

IF someon attempts this then it would be important to collect cases abd measure and examine them carefully and possibly have a metalurgist also examine them.

 

[jehzsa]

Now you got me thinking. Don't really know right now if I want to try it.

Btw, this is interesting. http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=705888
Hirtenberger calling the 9x18, "Police". New stock?