[Dieselgrin]

I've recently purchased 2 PP 7.65s. Both are "X" outs which I assume means they were police weapons. There doesn't appear to be an import mark. Any info would be appreciated. Value? Thanks.

 

[Dieter H. Marschall]

Hello,
Can you please post close-ups of the markings?
Kind regards,
Dieter H. Marschall.

 

[Martin]

Seems to be a former police PP used by the Bavarian Police (ByP).

 

[searcher451]

Among other items, this thread ...

http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/...e-what-do-i-have-please-start-here-first.html

... contains instructions on posting photos to the forum. Wandering around inside it a bit also could turn up a great deal of interesting information regarding your pistol. Have fun.

 

[Dieselgrin]

Thanks. I did find the year. I'm interested in the lack of importer mark.

 

[GeoNole94]

No import marks could indicate a GI bring back from before the military clamped down on those, it could be hiding under the grips, it could be smuggled...

 

[1917-1911M]

Dieter might know this....I don't. What was the turn in process and how were the turn-in pistols sold? When the police moved away from the PP did the officers turn the pistol into procurement. What then? Were the pistols sold to gun shops? Who X'd out what and why? If the guns ended up in local gun shops could American GIs purchase and transport them back to the U.S.? Some were imported by Interarms and others? How did this work? M1911

 

[Dieselgrin]

This couldn't be a bring back. The date range is 64 - 65, I think. Both are x'd out. Other PP is much older from Ulm.

 

[Dieselgrin]

This one is ByP X'd out. No import under the grips. Other is 1960 from Hesse I believe.

 

[Milspec]

Your PP's were most likely personal imports by US service members stationed overseas in the 1980's - 1990's. We could buy like new police surplus PP's at any Rod & Club in Germany for $110 each and bring them home without importer stamps.

 

[GeoNole94]

This couldn't be a bring back. The date range is 64 - 65, I think. Both are x'd out. Other PP is much older from Ulm.

I am not referring to WWII, but subsequent US military stationed in Deutschland; there were a lot of us there over the decades.

 

[Dieselgrin]

Would they be more desirable w/o import mark?

 

[GeoNole94]

Some people think so, but I am not sure that it is true from a monetary perspective. Some importer marks are hideously designed and/or poorly executed, while others aren't all that bad. I actually bought a PP to own a 'classic' Interarms 'CIA' import-stamped gun.

 

[1917-1911M]

According to my on-line inflation calculator..... $110 in 1965 is $868 in 2015. 1985 dollars would be $245 in 2015. Milspec, what would a Rod and Gun Club compare to in the U.S. if you will. M1911

 

[GeoNole94]

They were proofed in the mid-1960's, not surplused then. Probably surplused in the mid-1970's to early-1980's, IIRC.

 

[Dieselgrin]

They were proofed in the mid-1960's, not surplused then. Probably surplused in the mid-1970's to early-1980's, IIRC.

Geo, what's that mean? Thanks

 

[UniversalExports]

Geo, what's that mean? Thanks

I'm not Geo, but what he's telling you is that the weapon was proofed (test fired and stamped with a "proof" mark – usually but not always coinciding with the year of manufacture) sometime in the mid 1960s. It was "surplussed" (meaning replaced by another weapon and subsequently stricken from the police inventory; over here our federal government refers to this as being "excessed") probably in the late 1970s to early 1980s. After it was surplussed it was refurbished, exported, and sold on the civilian market.

 

[Dieselgrin]

Thanks. This one is stamped 65 on barrel which coincides with serial # year. The other, 1960, does not have stamped date.

 

[GeoNole94]

Walther didn't stamp them until the mid-1960's, IIRC, so you had to go by serial number compilations if you didn't have the dated test target. Later, it shifted to the A-K date code (e.g., HK = 1979). Manurhin's St. Etienne-proofed guns did not have a stamped date for the French PPs. As UE said, the German government proof is the date that you see on the gun and/or barrel, which is usually the same year as the gun was built. Exceptions to this correlation include some commercial-market PP Supers.

 

[Balogh]

...the German government proof is the date that you see on the gun and/or barrel, which is usually the same year as the gun was built.

It's probably better to say that these date codes are stamped on the frame of the gun. The barrels themselves show the nitro proof mark only.