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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've had my PDP for about two months, love it. I ordered a Vortex Viper red dot. Before receiving the red dot, I removed the plastic plate (on the slide) that covers where the plate and optics are mounted. I took the gun to the range yesterday and after a couple of rounds, the ejector part broke into multiple pieces. I called Walther and they told me the reason the ejector broke was because I didn't have the plastic plate on the slide. I'm sending it in for repair, so it's all good.

Maybe I should have known this would happen, but if not, I wanted to share so you don't make the same mistake I did.
 

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Why would this be odd? There are many auto pistol designs whose integral slide parts are held in place by the rear sight - to keep the necessary springs and components in place for proper operation.
 

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My Sig P320 XCompact (and many other models) has an LCI that must be captured by either optic cover plate or an RDS or it and a spring will simply fall out. Evidently Sig has poor designs as well....
 

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My Sig P320 XCompact (and many other models) has an LCI that must be captured by either optic cover plate or an RDS or it and a spring will simply fall out. Evidently Sig has poor designs as well....
You're talking apples and oranges here.

Last time I checked the LCI on the P320 isn't required for the function of the firearm. Having the LCI fall out, while unpleasant, is a far cry from the gun self destructing and being rendered inoperable. No Comparison. NONE.


Why would this be odd? There are many auto pistol designs whose integral slide parts are held in place by the rear sight - to keep the necessary springs and components in place for proper operation.
Because we're talking about an easily removable optics plate and not rear sights dovetailed/set screwed into the slide. Is the design unprecedented? Apparently not. Is it odd you'd end up with a design for a modern 'personal defense' pistol that self destructs if a plate is removed (or potentially damaged)? In 2021, I think so.

Obviously it's an unintended consequence of Walther resting on it's laurels by continuing the evolution of the P99 platform instead of bringing something truly new to market.
 

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Seems odd(/poor design) that the firearm self destructs if the plate isn't mounted.
I see it more as a common sense problem. The cover plate is only removed in order to install a RDS mounting plate. If the RDS mounting plate is later removed, it's only common sense to replace the original cover plate. Shooting the gun with that big gapping hole and internal parts exposed makes no sense at all. Why would anyone do that?
 

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Because we're talking about an easily removable optics plate and not rear sights dovetailed/set screwed into the slide. Is the design unprecedented? Apparently not. Is it odd you'd end up with a design for a modern 'personal defense' pistol that self destructs if a plate is removed (or potentially damaged)? In 2021, I think so.

Obviously it's an unintended consequence of Walther resting on it's laurels by continuing the evolution of the P99 platform instead of bringing something truly new to market.
The "Unintended consequences" of a successful design? And in "2021" we still have personal defense pistols that if an intergral part of it's mechanism is removed and there's parts breakage and a failure to function as a result of this part ommission, that's unacceptable? What the...

:rolleyes:

Sorry, but if one were to remove the optic plate from the slide of a handgun and there was a spring or springs and obvious parts of the slide mechanism observed, it should be quite obvious that such an optic plate was required to stay in place for part retention and the proper function of the pistol.

I just took the optics plate off of my Compact 5" PDP, and here's what I saw:

The red arrows point to areas that I would be concerned about, with common sense telling me not to shoot the firearm in this condition. No firearm that I'm aware of allows the striker and it's associated parts to be open to the environment as seen above, so why would anyone think that running the handgun in this condition would be proper or even safe??

I see it more as a common sense problem. The cover plate is only removed in order to install a RDS mounting plate. If the RDS mounting plate is later removed, it's only common sense to replace the original cover plate. Shooting the gun with that big gapping hole and internal parts exposed makes no sense at all. Why would anyone do that?
^^^ THIS ^^^ It took very little time and effort to remove the two small Torx head screws holding the optics plate in place on my psitol above so I could observe what was beneath it and take a picture, and the same small amount of time and effort to reinstall those same two screws to reattach the optic plate. Why the OP removed the optics plate before receiving the optic, never reinstalled the blank optic plate, then shot the pistol - is a mystery, but I'm quite sure that he won't do that again ;)
 

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The "Unintended consequences" of a successful design? And in "2021" we still have personal defense pistols that if an intergral part of it's mechanism is removed and there's parts breakage and a failure to function as a result of this part ommission, that's unacceptable? What the...

:rolleyes:
I'm the biggest P99/PPQ/PDP fan out there. It's undoubtedly a great platform. It won't stop me from levying fair criticism where it's due.

Perhaps you could consider this: Suppose someone is 'operating' and the plate comes loose/breaks off/is abducted by unicorns. I'm not sure how easy it is to damage the plate but if you're the type of person who carried your weapon in rough environments everyday (LEO/Military) it seems like it might become a concern. When you consider a LEO or Mil agency that may be issuing and deploying thousands of these things Murphy's Law suggests that sooner or later the plate will come off and quite possibly at the worst time. Losing a loaded chamber indicator... not a big deal. Weapon self destruct? Big deal!

Perhaps it's no concern of yours. To be honest, it's not really a big concern for me either because my operating days are (hopefully) far behind me. Still, I think it's pretty lame. "Sergeant, my optics plate fell off" are words that will inevitably be uttered by some dumb private or rookie. It will probably have an element of user error or improper maintenance but that's generally the way of how these things happen. Even the Q5 "meister manufaktur" guns, supposedly tuned and fitted by a quality smith, had front sights falling off. These sort of things happen to the best of us.

As to the 'common sense' of things... Common sense ain't so common. Maybe you can look at the PDP without a plate and say "obviously this is bad" but I think about a first time gun owner. Would your Grandma look at that photo and say, "That pistol isn't going to function"? Maybe yours might, but mine definitely wouldn't have a clue. I think that you felt it was necessary to use big giant red arrows to point those sections out might indicate just how not obvious it is to a casual user. Yeah, yeah. I'm sure it's in the manual. Who actually reads those things? ;)
 

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I was just being facetious when I made the comment about Sig and its LCI falling out if the optic cover plate or RDS wasn't in place. Obviously my attempt at sarcasm didn't translate very well.

One look at the PDP optic cut with the plate removed, as DrewBone's photo shows, would lead a person to believe that firing it without either the optic cover plate or RDS in place is probably a very bad idea. That being said, I'm sure the OP will not be the only PDP owner to find this out the hard way.
 

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Don't shoot your PDP with the optics plate or optic removed unless you want a catastrophic failure of the weapon. Good info to have, thank you. I hope Walther takes care of the OP's gun. :cool:
 

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Being new to RDS pistols, until I read this thread, I wouldn’t have thought twice about heading to the range without the plate installed. Now I know better.

I checked the paperwork that came with my PDP and there is nothing that says not to shoot it without the plate or an optic installed. I guess it never occurred to the engineers anyone would shoot it without a plate.
 

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Years ago - a lifetime, really - we had a saying: "If you give a GI a 9 pound rubber hammer and an anvil, they'll either break the anvil or steal it". No gun ever made is safe from abuse and we can all come up with a scenario whereby any handgun can be broken. The average LOE is not hard on the gun they carry. A GI or private security specialist assigned to places like Iraq or Afghanistan is more likely to be rough on a pistol than most. All to say that if the cover plate for the PDP were perceived to be a problem; e.g., fall off due to loose screws or damaged by contact, it's likely that a military or police order would specify a metal cover plate and/or Loctite to secure the screws from loosening. Personally, I don't see the plastic cover plate to be a problem.
 

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Would you drive your car without any valve covers? The valve covers are more than just a cosmetic piece of stamped steel....they do a little more than just look good.

Just like that cover plate. It's primary purpose was not to just make the pistol look good, it actually performed a function and looked good doing it....just like those valve covers.

That's the best I could come up with.
 

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I can almost see why you might excuse the pistol self destructing. One can make an argument that the plate is unlikely to come off. Frankly, that argument doesn't get a whole lot of traction with me but I'll accept that it's a valid viewpoint (Counterpoint: google "red dot sight came loose" and browse through the 27 million hits. Things come loose and then they break, it's the way of things. If it can happen then it will happen - especially if given to G.I.'s as mentioned above. The PDP has backup sights for a reason!).

What I can't understand is why they would excuse Walther's failure to note in the manual the inevitable self destruction that occurs if the plate/cover isn't mounted. That's straight dookie if you ask me.

Walther is a great company. I just purchased another Walther earlier this week (PPK/S, Stainless). I'm not hating just to hate. I just think it's disappointing to see a company that once lead the way in innovation and design is now coming late to the party with a product that doesn't inspire the same sort of confidence in performance that I get from my P99's or PPS classic*.


*Which also has user serviceable/removable part that if it falls off renders the pistol inoperable. Lame design decision and was rightfully rectified with the M2. Did many have an issue with the backstrap? No, not really. Did some? Heck yeah...
 

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...I think that you felt it was necessary to use big giant red arrows to point those sections out might indicate just how not obvious it is to a casual user.
Um, no, I used the red arrows to point out HOW OBVIOUS IT SHOULD BE that the optic cover plate or an optic plate needs to be in place while the Walther PDP pistol is functioning.

Owning and operating a firearm carries with it a big responsibility, requiring that its owner familiarize themselves with it's workings, and use forethought in every process involved with its disassembly/reassembly, when adding accessories, while carrying it for personal protection, when firing, during cleaning, and ultimately with its safe storage.

Just like a firearm, an automobile requires periodic maintenance, and part of that maintenance regimen consists of a periodic oil and filter change, which requires that you either pay someone to do it or you do it yourself. And if you decide to do the job yourself and you neglect to tighten the oil filter properly or forget to put oil on the gasket of the oil filter before installing it and your engine runs out of oil and destroys itself during a cross country trek, are you going to blame the manufacturer of the automobile because they're still using screw on oil filter technology, and then bring up the fact that BMW locates their engine oil filter element atop the engine in a cannister - where you think all oil filters should be? This is in essence what you're doing in this thread.

Screw on engine oil filters have been used forever without issue, as long as they're installed and installed properly. But sometimes they're not installed properly, and sometimes they're even forgotten! And neither of the aformentioned is the responsibility of the automobile manufacturer, but the owner or business providing the maintenance work.

So please stop blaming Walther for what amounts to a problem that seems to exist solely in your mind and in the minds of those unfortunate enough to experience damage to their firearms resulting from a poor decision or lack of insight.
 

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Um, no, I used the red arrows to point out HOW OBVIOUS IT SHOULD BE that the optic cover plate or an optic plate needs to be in place while the Walther PDP pistol is functioning.
So big red arrows were required to point out THE SUPER OBVIOUS THING? Why wasn't the super obvious thing super obvious without the big red arrows? :unsure:

Oh uh, watch out... here comes a car analogy. :rolleyes: I'll match you one. Imagine if your spark plugs blew out because you neglected to close the cover on the gas cap.... and the manufacturer never even mentioned it in the owner's manual.

For the record the problem doesn't only "exist in my mind". Several forum users have already come here with that exact problem. For some strange reason you want to blame the user instead of the manufacturer for not giving fair warning... and for some strange reason you're super militant about it. Probably the same strange reason you think that the PPQ is a 'successful' design despite having virtually zero adoption by LEO/MIL agencies and only lukewarm reception in the civilian market. Why is it successful? Because it goes 'bang' most of the time?

Fanboys are going to fanboy, I guess.
 

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If the possibility for the cover plate screws to come loose bothers the owner of a PDP, the solution is very simple and anyone can do it. Remove the plate, use a Q-Tip saturated with alcohol to clean the screw holes and screw threads of oil and put a small amount of clear fingernail polish on the screw threads. Replace the plate, tighten the screws and in a few minutes when the polish dries, the screws will not loosen and back out. When I mounted my RDS, that's what I did except I used a mid-grade Loctite that won't require heat to remove if necessary. The mount screws for the RDS already had an anti-loosen material on it. I'm confident that my screws will not loosen.

When I removed the cover plate, I immediately saw the exposed parts. If I hadn't mounted the RDS plate that covers the exposed parts, I would have replaced the cover plate to keep dirt and grime out of the exposed parts. To me, that's simply common sense. No manufacturer can possibly anticipate all things that an end user might do with their product. In the 1960's, NASA contracted the German company E. Leitz, maker of the famous Leica cameras, to construct a special camera for them. Upon delivery the NASA engineers, being engineers, examined the design and decided that a pin was too soft. They replaced it with a stainless steel pin. Later, the mechanism in the camera tore itself up. The pin they replaced was a shear pin designed to protect the mechanism. Was Leitz responsible for not telling NASA about the pin?

Of course the end user has some responsibility. It's logical - to me, anyway - that a cover plate that protects internal parts from dirt and other foreign material needs to be in place unless equivalent protection is provided by something else; a mounting plate in this instance. IMO, Walther has every right to expect a degree of responsibility from the user of their products. Now that a couple of instances of broken extractors or extractors falling out when the guns are shot without a cover plate or RDS mounting plate, I'm sure Walther will take corrective steps to make users aware of the problem.

Nor am I a Walther "fan boy". Until I purchased my PDP, my Walthers were confined to P.38s and a P1 made between 1942 and 1986.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I've had my PDP for about two months, love it. I ordered a Vortex Viper red dot. Before receiving the red dot, I removed the plastic plate (on the slide) that covers where the plate and optics are mounted. I took the gun to the range yesterday and after a couple of rounds, the ejector part broke into multiple pieces. I called Walther and they told me the reason the ejector broke was because I didn't have the plastic plate on the slide. I'm sending it in for repair, so it's all good.

Maybe I should have known this would happen, but if not, I wanted to share so you don't make the same mistake I did.
Don't feel bad, it happened to me while I was waiting for my Vortex to arrive. Fortunately, I found the parts except for one spring. Walther sent the replacement spring and it's been perfect ever since.
 

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Would you drive your car without any valve covers? The valve covers are more than just a cosmetic piece of stamped steel....they do a little more than just look good.

Just like that cover plate. It's primary purpose was not to just make the pistol look good, it actually performed a function and looked good doing it....just like those valve covers.

That's the best I could come up with.
Makes sense.
 
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