Hi guys I just got a chance to shoot my 99c for the first time. I am quite impressed by the accuracy. The sights are not so great though. After about 80 to 100 rounds the single action pull became very hard at the break. Any ideas on what the issue may
P99c Trigger Issue
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Now THAT seems odd. Well, the trigger pull starts with the trigger moving rearward and coming into contact with the FPB, at that point, as the trigger continues rearward, the trigger bar is pressing the FPB up into the slide (clearing the path for the striker). When you've moved the trigger rearward to the point you've reached the wall, the FPB is fully compressed and the tab on the trigger bar has just made contact with the single action lever (that's the wall). Now its at this point you say the trigger pull has increased, becoming very hard. Once you're at the wall, any additional rearward movement of the trigger bar is only going to move the single action lever an rch to the rear which will allow the single action sear to drop, releasing the striker.
So, to recap, once you're at the break, all you're doing is moving the single action lever a little farther rearward. The single action lever has a tiny spring with very little pressure.
Remove the slide and finger the trigger.....it should move back and forth with pretty much NO resistance (other than the trigger return spring)....but the movement should be smooth...VERY smooth.
Take a look at your sear assembly....you can actually move the single action lever back and forth with your finger. The movement of the single action lever should be extremely light and smooth. Give the sear a good look....see if you can see any foreign material/object anywhere in the sear housing or elsewhere.
Clean the pistol, blow er' out and lube it. Put back together and try the trigger again.
So, to recap, once you're at the break, all you're doing is moving the single action lever a little farther rearward. The single action lever has a tiny spring with very little pressure.
Remove the slide and finger the trigger.....it should move back and forth with pretty much NO resistance (other than the trigger return spring)....but the movement should be smooth...VERY smooth.
Take a look at your sear assembly....you can actually move the single action lever back and forth with your finger. The movement of the single action lever should be extremely light and smooth. Give the sear a good look....see if you can see any foreign material/object anywhere in the sear housing or elsewhere.
Clean the pistol, blow er' out and lube it. Put back together and try the trigger again.
Cleaned and lubed. Shot a mixture of ammo and all seemed to function fine. Towards the end of shooting it started to feel a little strange. I dry fired a few times when I got home and the DA pull seems fine but SA feels fine until the break and then it feels like a 12 poundish break for some reason. I can post some pictures tomorrow. Frame or Slide?
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While you're messing around with the pistol, do this. Make sure the chamber is clear, cause you're going to be pulling the trigger.
Remove the magazine. Turn pistol upside down, barrel pointing away from you. Shine a small flashlight down the empty magwell and look down there so you can see the FPB. Now, with the light shining and you looking down the magwell, very slowly move the trigger to the rear...you'll be able to see when the tab on the trigger bar comes into contact with the ramp/lobe on the FPB. You'll also notice the increase in trigger pull as the tab on the trigger bar starts to press the FPB up into the slide. As you continue farther rearward you'll feel the wall.
This exercise will help you to better understand what you're feeling as you pull the trigger.
Sounds like your problem is related to something in the frame......not the slide. However, you can also check the FPB for 'free' operation up and down. Or, for testing purposes only, you could remove the FPB and spring, reassemble the pistol and finger the trigger. Without the FPB, the trigger pull should be REALLY smooth....all the way to the wall. NOW, it you're still feeling like the break is 12 pounds, we just proved the FPB isn't a part of the problem....so put it back in.
So, do some checkin' and let us know the results.
Remove the magazine. Turn pistol upside down, barrel pointing away from you. Shine a small flashlight down the empty magwell and look down there so you can see the FPB. Now, with the light shining and you looking down the magwell, very slowly move the trigger to the rear...you'll be able to see when the tab on the trigger bar comes into contact with the ramp/lobe on the FPB. You'll also notice the increase in trigger pull as the tab on the trigger bar starts to press the FPB up into the slide. As you continue farther rearward you'll feel the wall.
This exercise will help you to better understand what you're feeling as you pull the trigger.
Sounds like your problem is related to something in the frame......not the slide. However, you can also check the FPB for 'free' operation up and down. Or, for testing purposes only, you could remove the FPB and spring, reassemble the pistol and finger the trigger. Without the FPB, the trigger pull should be REALLY smooth....all the way to the wall. NOW, it you're still feeling like the break is 12 pounds, we just proved the FPB isn't a part of the problem....so put it back in.
So, do some checkin' and let us know the results.
Cleaned the FPB. Was pretty dirty considering only around 100 rounds. I noticed when dry firing the bare frame that the trigger had a fetching point at the beginning lubed and it went away. Put it all back together and still the single action pull is hard.
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Did you remove the FPB and spring, reassemble pistol and try trigger? If not do that.....need to completely rule out the FPB. If you still have the 12 lb. break, put the FPB back in, as its apparently not part of the problem.
Refer to the picture below:
Oval A is the single action lever, it props up the single action sear, which is Oval B. When you've moved the trigger all the back to the wall, a tab on the trigger bar (that we can't see in this particular picture) just made contact with a tab on the single action lever. THIS is the point where, the pull leading up to this point was normal, and the little bit of trigger movement from this point results in a 12 lb. pull/break. There are only two things moving once you're at the wall and continue the pull .... 1. The trigger bar moves straight back and 2. The single action lever is pushed back about 1/16" to maybe an 1/8" (eyeball measurement). So, the trigger bar is binding, hit a ledge or something or the single action sear is just REALLY heavy (which it shouldn't be....it should be very easy and smooth as silk.
So, if removing the FPB had no effect on your 12 lb. break its time to look elsewhere. Refer to the picture below. Remove the slide, put your thumbnail on the single action sear at the point indicated by the green arrow. Apply constant downward pressure on the single action sear....while applying pressure, pull the trigger back until you're against the wall (go slow, you'll feel it). Once you're at the wall, go ahead and continue pulling the trigger. You'll notice the single action lever moving rearward as the trigger bar moves rearward....it won't move much and you'll feel the single action sear 'drop' due to the downward pressure you were applying with your thumbnail.
The question is, was the pull at the wall 4.5 lbs or 12 lbs.? Was it smooth? Did you see the trigger bar jump, as though maybe it just went over a burr in the side of the sear housing????
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Refer to the picture below:
Oval A is the single action lever, it props up the single action sear, which is Oval B. When you've moved the trigger all the back to the wall, a tab on the trigger bar (that we can't see in this particular picture) just made contact with a tab on the single action lever. THIS is the point where, the pull leading up to this point was normal, and the little bit of trigger movement from this point results in a 12 lb. pull/break. There are only two things moving once you're at the wall and continue the pull .... 1. The trigger bar moves straight back and 2. The single action lever is pushed back about 1/16" to maybe an 1/8" (eyeball measurement). So, the trigger bar is binding, hit a ledge or something or the single action sear is just REALLY heavy (which it shouldn't be....it should be very easy and smooth as silk.
So, if removing the FPB had no effect on your 12 lb. break its time to look elsewhere. Refer to the picture below. Remove the slide, put your thumbnail on the single action sear at the point indicated by the green arrow. Apply constant downward pressure on the single action sear....while applying pressure, pull the trigger back until you're against the wall (go slow, you'll feel it). Once you're at the wall, go ahead and continue pulling the trigger. You'll notice the single action lever moving rearward as the trigger bar moves rearward....it won't move much and you'll feel the single action sear 'drop' due to the downward pressure you were applying with your thumbnail.
The question is, was the pull at the wall 4.5 lbs or 12 lbs.? Was it smooth? Did you see the trigger bar jump, as though maybe it just went over a burr in the side of the sear housing????
I removed and cleaned FPB and spring. I tried pushing down on the single action and the pull feels fine. Pulling the trigger with the slide off there seems to be a binding when you first pull the trigger. It is strange because the double action trigger feels normal. The trigger bar appears to be moving straight back. Any other ideas? Thanks
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I added some 'blue' to the picture. The side of the trigger bar rubs against the side of the sear housing....see blue vertical line and blue arrow. The side of the trigger bar and the side of the sear housing need to be smooth and free of any burrs, molding flash, dirt/grime, etc. This is one of the areas I use a small piece of 320/400 grit sand paper....and don't forget the lube.
Ya know, while I'm thinking about it, there is one more area to look at...and that'd be the top of the trigger bar (to the rear of the second tab) where the trigger bar guide rubs on the trigger bar. THAT area also needs to be smooth and free of any burrs, as well as lubed. I'm talking about the area in the blue circle (see picture below).
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Ya know, while I'm thinking about it, there is one more area to look at...and that'd be the top of the trigger bar (to the rear of the second tab) where the trigger bar guide rubs on the trigger bar. THAT area also needs to be smooth and free of any burrs, as well as lubed. I'm talking about the area in the blue circle (see picture below).
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Sparky, are you talking about the part indicated by the blue line? If so, that's part of the sear block assembly, and shouldn't be moving at all.
In all honesty, if you're still getting a 12 lb. pull, you need to contact Walther and see if they'll offer to take a look at it.
Usually, if they can detect any 'home gunsmithing' they'll not honor the warranty.
So, I'd suggest just leaving it alone at this point, as all you've done is clean and lube it. Give em' a call.....see what they say.
BTW, to remove the trigger bar, you'd need to remove the locking block and slide stop levers....which can sometimes be a 8itch. I'd leave it alone and see if Walther would take a look at it.
In all honesty, if you're still getting a 12 lb. pull, you need to contact Walther and see if they'll offer to take a look at it.
Usually, if they can detect any 'home gunsmithing' they'll not honor the warranty.
So, I'd suggest just leaving it alone at this point, as all you've done is clean and lube it. Give em' a call.....see what they say.
BTW, to remove the trigger bar, you'd need to remove the locking block and slide stop levers....which can sometimes be a 8itch. I'd leave it alone and see if Walther would take a look at it.
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I was going back and rereading the post, I miss this post. Seems as you posted this while I was composing and posting the next post.
Anyways.......you said "Pulling the trigger with the slide off there seems to be a binding when you first pull the trigger." What might be happening there is the drop safety (that little center blade in the trigger shoe) may not be getting fully depressed prior to the trigger/bar moving rearward. And, if that happens the drop safety tab may hang/drag/contact the frame as you're pulling the trigger. You'll fell it at the very beginning of the pull. Your finger needs to be firmly/squarely planted on the surface of the trigger shoe as you start your pull.
Try this....use your fingernail and press the trigger rearward using your fingernail on the edge of the trigger....never touching the center blade. You'll see the 'drop safety' in action.
This works with the slide on or off the frame.The DA pull uses a different mechanical mechanism to cock and release the striker.....its totally different than the AS or SA operation.
Good morning guys. Been following your trigger problems here because the trigger was the main reason I divested myself of the P99c as. My problem was not the same as yours but I don't recall that I had a"blade", in the trigger such as Glock or Savage Acu-trigger.
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Sorry guys, I was mistakenly looking at one of my PPQ frames/triggers. The P99 trigger does not have a center blade, rather the trigger shoe actually pivots on the trigger bar to provide the same result.
Sorry....forget the rambling about the center blade.
Sorry....forget the rambling about the center blade.
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Old people....sheesh. What kinda shotgun is this again? 1917
1917
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^^^^Yes.....I got on a role last night....then a wheel came off. I shoulda quit while I was ahead.
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Is this an AS trigger? On mine there is nothing I can do to it to bind the trigger or trigger bar, slide off. Press down on the trigger bar, left, right, lifting up does make for a tiny bit more drag. The sear can't be made to bind anything press down or lift up and the DA lever will put pressure against movement of the trigger but the trigger has much more leverage and the pull is smooth. Does the lower leg of the striker appear undamaged? Isn't there an adjustment for the rear end of the trigger bar? Something that times the release. Could it be out of adjustment and the trigger be too far rearward for release of the striker? Like what would happen with an overtravel stop that is preventing the trigger from moving far enough rearward..unless pulled really hard.
Does the sear appear undamaged? Anything that can crack in the rear housing? I haven't studied on the system enough to know what changes between DA and SA. I can pull my striker rearward smoothly although the effort is pretty hard on my tiny fingers. It seems that if DA works fine then movement of the striker should be fine in SA. My trigger does not click at the beginning of the pull, slide off or on. Exactly what changes DA vs SA? 1917
I'll have to study a parts diagram. The AS system has a DA sear right next to the spring...and to the left of that the SA sear and on the far left a decocking sear lever. Am I correct. I have never had an understanding of how the parts actually function. DA would seem to pull the striker rearward before release. What parts do this; trigger, trigger bar, DA sear? In SA, decocked what goes on. The lever on the left has been acted on by the decocker. Any good slow motion graphic, cutaway videos of the interaction of the parts. Could something be cracked in the polymer trigger components? 1917
No exploded diagrams that I can find show any details of the sear housing parts.
Does the sear appear undamaged? Anything that can crack in the rear housing? I haven't studied on the system enough to know what changes between DA and SA. I can pull my striker rearward smoothly although the effort is pretty hard on my tiny fingers. It seems that if DA works fine then movement of the striker should be fine in SA. My trigger does not click at the beginning of the pull, slide off or on. Exactly what changes DA vs SA? 1917
I'll have to study a parts diagram. The AS system has a DA sear right next to the spring...and to the left of that the SA sear and on the far left a decocking sear lever. Am I correct. I have never had an understanding of how the parts actually function. DA would seem to pull the striker rearward before release. What parts do this; trigger, trigger bar, DA sear? In SA, decocked what goes on. The lever on the left has been acted on by the decocker. Any good slow motion graphic, cutaway videos of the interaction of the parts. Could something be cracked in the polymer trigger components? 1917
No exploded diagrams that I can find show any details of the sear housing parts.
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