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Conceptually they're similar, I suppose. That said, how close they are in reality is going to depend on which version of the LEM you're shooting; there are several different configurations of the LEM with different spring weights which apparently lead to significantly different characteristics.
 

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I would say that they are different. In AS mode, the striker is already cocked. With the LEM trigger the hammer is drawn back as the trigger is pulled. There is still some resistance with the LEM trigger but no resistance with the pre cocked striker of the AS.
 

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To get a feel of the difference between the 2, run out to a shop and feel them for yourself. I own both, the lem along with sig's DAK are pretty good. The reset on the 99c AS has a better reset due to it being shorter.
 

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I asked this same question on the Hk forums about a year or so ago. I don't remember specifics about the answers, but they were a uniform no, that they can't be compared.
While both do offer a long smooth take up, there are variances between different models of pistols, and some of the lem are, as mentioned, different weight pull.
One other key difference is that lem is Dao, double action only. So you're gonna have that longer pull, every time. Where ur only gonna have the long pull if you decock the pistol, with the as.
 

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HK LEM has a long light first stage to “prep” the hammer. Next stage there is indeed a wall, noticeable for sure, lighter in the light LEM than the standard LEM, then the discharge, which is smoth and relatively crisp. My Walthers by comparison are all lighter triggers than my HK’s. LEM more resembles the AS trigger in the Walthers but the first stage pull in the Walther is even lighter than the HK and the trigger break is further back and even lighter.

Biggest difference overall is the HK’s are hammer fired vs. Walthers are striker fired. This makes a significant difference in feel and function.
 

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That is helpful; sounds as if the HK might have a higher safety margin against ADs.<img src="http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/images/smilies/confused.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Confused" class="inlineimg" />
OK, I have to run the fence on this one. So please forgive me for that. But I would say that they both have near the same possibility. And if it happens, it's going to be due to operator error.
Both have a considerably long pull to the break. Especially the Hk p30. However, keep in mind that the P99 trigger system was originally DESIGNED to have that pull, to alleviate as much chance of discharge in heavy anxiety situations for law enforcement and military personnel.
I have not fired or worked with a LEM hk. Just a regular USP v1, p30 v3, and the VP9 systems. Out of the 4, the vp series is the only one that you Might accidentally discharge, due to its much shorter and very light pull to the break.
The hammer guns and the P99 system, unless you are stupid careless (and I mean to the point that the person shouldn't be around guns!) the chance of an AD with either mentioned system is Not likely to happen. You have to pull that trigger and keep pulling. You have to pull it back to the point that you INTEND for that gun to go off.
 

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Only added possible prevention against ND in the HK LEM vs. any striker fired pistol is the ability to place the thimb on top of hammer during reholstering. If the hammer is
moving due to accidentally snagging the trigger the pistol is in firing sequence......striker fired pistols cannot replicate this. Careful handling is always the key to safe operation in either platform of course.
 

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However, keep in mind that the P99 trigger system was originally DESIGNED to have that pull, to alleviate as much chance of discharge in heavy anxiety situations for law enforcement and military personnel.
I don't believe they intentionally designed the AS trigger pull into the design. I believe it is simply a byproduct of having a DA/SA striker fired pistol with a decocker.

Only added possible prevention against ND in the HK LEM vs. any striker fired pistol is the ability to place the thimb on top of hammer during reholstering.
On the P99, pressing and holding the decocker into the slide will block the path of the striker so that it will not impact the primer on the cartridge if the trigger is pulled and the striker is released.

I'd say they are about as safe as each other while holstering.
 

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Balance-- I may have not wrote that out correctly. If so I apologize, and thanks for pointing it out.
What I meant was the long pull in da mode, or when it's in sa mode and the trigger is not set into that second rearward position.
The intention of that long pull was to gain favor with mil and LE that were concerned about going to striker pistols, or departments with concerns about no manual safety.
That having a pull that long would ensure that their personell wouldn't accidently send a round off when they didn't intend to, in hit situations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
For clarification; my manual says the P99 is to be holstered(carried)after decocking. Apparently, Walther does not intend the AS mode to be a carry position. I find this strange since my PPQ has a shorter and lighter takeup and a lighter trigger pull by -1/4 lb. compared to the AS mode. Has Walther ever explained this to anyone?
 

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I don't believe they intentionally designed the AS trigger pull into the design. I believe it is simply a byproduct of having a DA/SA striker fired pistol with a decocker.


On the P99, pressing and holding the decocker into the slide will block the path of the striker so that it will not impact the primer on the cartridge if the trigger is pulled and the striker is released.

I'd say they are about as safe as each other while holstering.
I have used the decocker for DA/SA carry set up but did not know it could be used as described like blocking the HK hammer for reholstering. Old guys can still learn new stuff! Thanks for the info.
 

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The intention of that long pull was to gain favor with mil and LE that were concerned about going to striker pistols, or departments with concerns about no manual safety.
I believe you're right.

I was just pointing out that there are only two striker fired pistols I know of that are DA/SA pistols with decockers (Walther P99 and CZ 110), and both have three trigger pulls, with one being DA, one being SA trigger forward, and the other being SA trigger rearward.

I believe the reason is because on a striker fired pistol, it would be difficult and complicated to design the trigger to move to the rear when the striker was cocked without pulling the trigger. On a hammer fired pistol, the hammer is connected to the trigger bar, and the trigger bar is connected to the trigger. All three are connected, and all three are in the frame, so cocking the hammer pulls the trigger to the rear. On a striker fired pistol, the striker is in the slide, and the trigger and trigger bar are in the frame. Cocking the striker does not pull the trigger to the rear.

I believe the AS mode is nothing other than a byproduct of making a DA/SA striker fired pistol with decocker, and I don't believe it was intentionally designed into the pistol.

I have no proof of this, but this is just a belief I have after looking at the pistol and wondering how much more complicated it would have to be if they did design the trigger to move to the rear when the striker was cocked.

I have used the decocker for DA/SA carry set up but did not know it could be used as described like blocking the HK hammer for reholstering.
The decocker button itself is what stops the striker's forward movement when decocking the pistol. There is a tab on the top of the striker that impacts the back of the decocker button when it is pressed into the slide to decock the pistol. The decocker button acts as a "striker block", by design.

I encourage you to test this yourself with an unloaded pistol. Put a pencil or pen in the barrel and pull the trigger while pressing and holding the decocker into the slide. As long as the parts are functioning correctly, the striker will not impact it.

Just remember to press, and HOLD the decocker into the slide while holstering if you want this to be an effective method of more safely holstering the pistol. After learning of this function of the decocker button, I did it every time I holstered the pistol. It can be thought of as a passive safety device.
 

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IMHO HK LEM is very different from P99 AS mode.

P99 AS mode has long take up with almost no resistance to the wall and then about 4LB pull to break.

The HK LEM, at least my P30SK, trigger has a very light take up about two thirds the way through and then you get about a gradual 2-3LB resistance stage for another short distance to the wall and then about 5.5 LBs for the break. The hammer also moves back as soon as the trigger is pulled which is also a visual indicator to the shooter that the trigger is being moved. The P99 AS does have a pin that moves but IMO the hammer on the HK LEM is much more effective as a visual indicator.
 
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