[jerryG]

Hi, Everyone….

This is my first post, but I’ve been lurking here for a couple of weeks, soaking up all the good information on the P99.  

I was initially attracted to the QA, but, although its trigger has a nice short stroke, the heavy pull (8.5 lbs) scared me away. A week ago I was pretty much convinced I wanted to get the AS version, but now I’m a little uncertain because of confusion about its first-shot, SA trigger pull profile.  Here’s my dilemma:

When I first looked at the trigger pull graph in the Walther P99 brochure at http://194.150.229.31/ersatzteil/P99E.pdf  (page 8), it appeared to me that the first SA shot consisted of a very light (less than 2 lbs) “take up” followed by a short, 4.5 lbs “action range” virtually identical to the SA mode of subsequent shots.  In fact, I believe I read somewhere that if you pulled through the “take up” range the trigger would stay at the rearward position, thus giving the shooter the short, light SA pull on the first shot, ideal at the range or under any circumstances where you had the time.  For me, this seemed perfect.

However, after reading complaints, here and elsewhere, concerning the first and subsequent shot trigger pull difference, I did a bit of research today and found a completely different AS trigger profile in the Walther catalog at http://194.150.229.31/ersatzteil/Defense_Katalog_E.pdf  (scroll down to P99AS).  Clearly there’s no clear cut “take up” range and it’s extremely doubtful the trigger would “reset” somewhere around the 7mm point.  It isn’t that the first shot profile is bad for a defensive weapon.  In fact, it’s roughly the same as a Glock 17 (A little lighter-4.5 lbs versus 5.5 lbs, and a little longer-.55 in. versus .50 in.), but it is noticeably different than the subsequent shots would be.

Now…  The Walther brochure, which shows the “take up” range, appears to be addressing pre-2004 weapons, while the Walther catalog clearly addresses the 2004 and later versions.  Was a trigger profile change made in 2004?  If not, which, if any, of these profiles is correct?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

 

[MATCHES]

My p99c (3xxx ser #) functions as you first describe.

 

[Yakko Warner]

I don't know if the AS trigger was changed in 2004; I only have a 2003 model. The graphs certainly look different, but what's missing on the second graph is the DA profile; otherwise, both show the SA and Anti-Stress (AS) profiles, albeit differently. And I think the complaints you've read about trigger pull differences is the traditional complaint about a DA-SA transition.

 

[BlakeTyner]

I don't believe the trigger profile has changed in the AS.

I just traded my QA for an AS (my QA was a 2005 model; the AS is a 2006) and the "take up" is still there when the striker is cocked. You can take up the slack and the trigger will stay in the rearward position, giving you a short, light single action pull.

If you press the decocker, of course, the striker will decock and, if the trigger was rearward, it will fall back into its forward position. Now you're in DA mode, and it's a looooong, heavy pull. Each subsequent shot, though, would be that easy SA (unless you decocked it again.)

Anyway, the short answer is, when I compare my brother's 2003 P99 AS to my 2006 AS, I can tell zero difference in the operation of the weapon.

*Edited to add*
I carried the QA as my concealed handgun for over a year, and even qualified with it (perfect score) when I took the class. It is a fine weapon, and the trigger system is not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Believe it or not, I shot better groups with it than I do with the AS. So don't be turned off of the QA just because it has a seemingly heavy pull....it's not nearly as heavy as the DA pull of an AS model.

The only reason I switched is because the QA has no second-strike capability, and that made me a teensy bit nervous. It's a fine piece and I had no problems with it.

 

[uncut]

I don't think there was a change in trigger from pre2004 to post2004...... but I can't say for sure as I only have the 2004 model P99/AS
like mentioned before .... the complains about the difference in triggerpull length and weight is from the traditional DA to SA not from the "anti stress" SA to the normal SA.....
the 'long take up" will be in either of the P99 or P99/AS. If you cock the striker the trigger will stay in the forward position ..... if the striker is cocked by cycling the slide with a shot it will stay in the rear position.....
I doubt that a average shooter would be able to tell the difference at all if there was a change made to the weight in the pull or the length in the reset....
If you are used to the Glock action and fucntion I would stick with the "QA" as it is almost identical to Glocks.... just that it might be a bit heavier and longer... but you got the same length with each shot plus you get a decocker that you can use to when cleaning .....

IMHO the P99 DA/SA or P99/AS with the second stike capability is most vital to your "average" CC person and not for proffesionals that CC while off duty....
Not to long ago there was a post on Sig-forum regards this (second strike capability) and I got the impression that if you have a failure to fire you should just dispose of the round (tab rack something) which is standard procedure I guess for proffesionals..... well I guess I like the second strike as all I had so far was some handgun classes but no tactical or advanced training... and I doubt in a high stress situation I would rack my slide but rather just pull the trigger again....
I guess what I am trying to say is..... I came to the conclusion that either P99 will do the trick as long as you know your and your guns limits....  if you shot many Glocks before, the transition from there to the P99 would be easier with a P99/QA IMHO

 

[MLB]

Yes, it's tap-rack (tap the mag to make sure it's seated and rack the slide to chamber another round.) Even with the second strike capability, I wouldn't use it. If it didn't fire the first time, I'd say there's a good chance it won't go on the second either. Better to get a live one in there.

YMMV

 

[jerryG]

Thanks everyone.  

It seems that the pre-2004 and the post-2004 models work pretty much the same, and that the action is as I first thought it to be.  If I could find an AS and a QA to play with I could answer these questions myself, but, so far, I haven’t had any luck.

Is the “take up” quite distinct!  Is there much of a danger of accidentally shooting when you’re merely trying to pull out the “take up”?

Regarding “second strike capability”:  I’ve always been reluctant to eject an FTF round (on the range), even after waiting 30 seconds.  I’ve never done a study, but my impression is that most (maybe 75%) of my FTF’s have fired on the second or third pull.  Anyone know any statistics on this?

Is it safe to leave an AS fully cocked, not for safety reasons, but because of adverse effects on the striker spring?  (As you can see, I’m new to striker-fired weapons).

 

[Cranduit]

The take up is quite a bit different than DA mode. The second "half" of pulling the SA trigger is also a noticeable difference from the "take up"

 

[sniper350]

Quote[/b] ]Is it safe to leave an AS fully cocked, not for safety reasons, but because of adverse effects on the striker spring?  (As you can see, I’m new to striker-fired weapons).

There is no more danger to the striker spring, than there is to the magazine spring of a fully loaded magazine. So no, there is no danger to the spring, the striker spring will be fine carried in the SA mode for extended periods.

The "second strike" capability is a faster way to maybe fix a FTF problem............followed by the slap and rack. Pulling the trigger a second time can be accomplised literally in a few hundreths of a second and more importantly the target need not be lost in the process. But whatever method you use to solve the problem............should come from your training and what you feel comfortable doing. As long as you are actively trying to solve the problem, most likely you will be OK.............its the shooters that "freeze" when the problem ocurrs, that will suffer a bad consequence.


JF.

 

[jerryG]

OK... thanks again, folks.

It looks like, for my needs, the AS is just the ticket!