[KevH]

I work for a mid-size police department that issues the SW99 in 40 S&W. Twice now we have had to send a batch of 200 guns back to S&W for them to be replaced due to manufacturing errors which caused them not to function. After having to switch guns a couple times, I gave up and now carry a personaly owned Glock. My department is now going to switch to the new M&P next month.

It seems a lot of people love P99's and I myself have been interested in getting one since they came out. I'm assuming that the problems I've witnessed are unique to the S&W copy. Other than reliability one of the issues I had was that after a training session with about 500 rounds fired my hands were left pretty chewed up. Are the German-proofed guns much different than the S&W copy?

 

[Yakko Warner]

I work for a mid-size police department that issues the SW99 in 40 S&W. Twice now we have had to send a batch of 200 guns back to S&W for them to be replaced due to manufacturing errors which caused them not to function.

Can you tell us what the manufacturing error was and how the SW99's were non-functional? I'm curious if this is something to be aware of. Thanks.

 

[uncut]

Also I would like to know what state you are in.....
IIRC there was a police department some years back that had S&W make some huge changes for the issued guns and they were POS.....
overall .... the frame of the SW99 is German made... S&W makes the barrels and slides......
I never had a SW99 in my hands... but I am sure Shipwreck can tell you all about the differences.... he got both in 9mm

 

[KevH]

I'm not an armorer on these, but I'll try to explain.

Since the guns are carried decocked, the normal firing sequence is DA,SA,SA,SA,...

Our guns firing sequence would be: DA,SA,DA,SA,SA,DA,...something like that-basically its decocking itself. We also had some instances where you would pull the trigger on DA and nothing would happen. A batch of guns were sent back to S&W and they told us that the trigger group's geometry (or something to that effect) was off and it was causing a series of missfires. They said it was a manufacturing error on their part and the guns needed to be replaced. Kudos to them for immediately fixing the problem.

We got the new guns and a few of them are experiencing the same problem, as well as failures to feed. We also have had a whole bucket of magazine failures (the rear seam seperates) when the mags go to training sessions where thousands of rounds are fired (not one of the guns has made it through a rangemaster school).

After the last batch was sent back, S&W is replacing all the guns with M&P's. S&W's customer service is EXCELLENT. Also, I have a friend at another agenchy that carries a German proofed Walther P99, has thousands of rounds through it and says he hasn't had any problems at all.

I'm in California.

 

[uncut]

Never heard of such problems with the P99......
if the guns decocks itself it should be a SW990 .....without a decocker on the slide...
I think the state that had the SW99's that were messed up was NJ... but they had asked S&W to make the mods though S&W and other people told them that the mods were not a good idea.... in the end they all were turned over to S&W and roumors has it they ended up at CDNN.... I never seen one of these guns...

 

[KevH]

These were DA/SA guns that were doing that weird firing sequence. It was NOT something we wanted. It seemed like it was quality control issues with this batch from S&W.

I'm not trying to slam S&W. A 442 is my every day carry gun. Their customer service is great. I'm simply asking if there are any fundamental design differneces between the P99 and SW99. I'm also curious if anyone has experienced these same problems.

 

[Yakko Warner]

We also had some instances where you would pull the trigger on DA and nothing would happen. A batch of guns were sent back to S&W and they told us that the trigger group's geometry (or something to that effect) was off and it was causing a series of missfires.

This was happening on my Walther P99. I was dryfiring it, and after releasing the trigger, without racking the slide, the trigger did not reset to its DA mode; the trigger was in its forward position, but it felt like the trigger bar did not engage the striker.

I sent it back to S&W and they replaced the striker assembly and trigger bar, which I think have to be mated to some degree. Actually I just got it back this morning, and that problem appears fixed, though I still have one niggling concern: http://www.waltherforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=6021

Before this problem, I'd guess I shot around 1500 rounds through it with no problems at all.

Thanks for your info.

 

[GPalmer]

I'm simply asking if there are any fundamental design differneces between the P99 and SW99. I'm also curious if anyone has experienced these same problems.

I've never heard of any fundamental design differences. I have heard of some implementation differences, generally it seems that most who have tried both feel that the Walther's are a more polished or refined and higher quality implementation than the S&W. Of course, they are also more expensive so they should be.

 

[Chikan]

I can't speak for specific differences, but before I purchased my P99 I tried both. I personally found the SW99 to be far too barrel-heavy compared to the P99, which ended up being the final influence on my purchase decision. I for one have put thousands through my gun, with no problems. In fact, I've only had ONE "smokestack" jam, and it was when my wife shot it for the first time. LOL