[Echotech]

OK first off, hello to all of you out there. I am new to this site. This is my first time here in fact.

So, I have a few questions for all of you. I currently carry a Taurus PT-111, and before all of you start telling me that I carry a sub standard gun, I am aware of the feeling out there on the PT-111. But, I like it, it fits my hand well and I shoot very well with it. I have a few problems with it however that make me want to upgrade my equipment. So, I am thinking about buying a sw99c as my new carry gun. I have held a P99 full size and I must admit, the grip fit my hand like a glove. It was the best feeling gun I have ever held. I was very pleased. My question is this, does the sw99 feel the same? I believe that the frame for the sw99 is made by Walther, so the only difference is the S&W logo on the grip? The sw99 costs about $100 less than the Walther version, so I am leaning towards the sw99.

Can I use Walther P99 magazines in the sw99?

You can use the full size 16 round magazines in the compact right?

If someone can explaine to me the differences between the different actions I would appreciate it. I don't think I understand them at all. I want a traditional double action first shot, single action second with the decocker. What version is that?

Any info you all can give me would be very, very much appreciated. Thanks out there.

 

[Navy87Guy]

Welcome, Echotech. Don't worry -- no one will attack you for your choice of gun...especially now that you're considering a Walther!

If you were blindfolded, you'd never know the difference between the P99 and the SW99. Walther and S&W have a "strategic partnership" and the lines between them are very blurry. You'll get the same quality from S&W -- which is where you'd send your Walther if you ever had a warranty issue.

As far as trigger actions, the three basic types are AS (SA/DA), QA(SA) and DAO. The AS actually has three modes...double action for the first shot, a "longer" single action pull for the second shot and then a shorter SA pull for all subsequent shots (to me the difference is barely noticeable). It operates much like my Ruger or my Sig. The QA is a single-action only pistol. The gun MUST be cocked in order to fire. It does have a decocker (there for maintenance and disassembly) so it is possible to decock a loaded gun and NOT be able to fire. On the bright side, you only have to move the slide about 1/8" to cock it and the QA provides a consistent trigger pull for every round (much like a Glock). The DAO is double-action only...not too common.

Walther is supposed to stop importing the AS version this year and only offer the QA in the States. So if you want one, better grab it while you can. I had a hard time finding a retailer who could get me an AS model, so I ended up paying more than I wanted to. But now that I've shot it, I'm more than happy. OnPoint Firearms is advertising the P99C AS for $539 and show 40+ in stock.

Hope this helps!
Jim

 

[P88]

Personally I think there is a difference in the quality. I haven't been impressed with the work that S&W does with their semi-autos, and the SW99 is no different. Although I think Walther's quality has dropped off a little in the past year, I still think they are better made than the SW99. The tolerences seem to be tighter and the finish is better also. Generally you'll see the P99 is more accurate than the SW99 also.

 

[ledges]

As I own and shoot both the Walther P99 and the SW99, I find it hard to believe there's an important quality difference in the two pistols. The SW99 is made to strict German specifications with a majority of German made parts. Therefore, I doubt the Walther's company would ever allow its name to be used in conjunction with anything less than perfect. From a practical side, I’d have to say the differences between the two pistols are very slight indeed –except for cost.

I recently participated in a demanding two day-long Defensive Handgun class and my SW99 functioned and performed flawlessly compared to the other handguns on the line except for the two highly customized 1911s.

When it comes to the compact models, I, having a large hand, find both guns a bit too short in the grip length.

So, don't let name brand bias cloud your decision-making! Construction-wise either firearm is an excellent choice -because they are virtually the same.

 

[BreakerDave]

FWIW, S&W is coming out with their own version of the QA system for their SW99's. It's called the OL. The interesting difference at the SHOT Show was that the SW99's with the OL system had no decocker.

-The marketing guys weren't happy with that change because they had just spent the previous three years selling the SW99 partially on the basis of it having a decocker thus allowing for a safer disassembly. D'oh!

 

[Nocturnal]

One of the practical differences between the P99 and SW99 is the slide material. SW uses stainless while Walther uses Tenifer treated carbon steel. The tenifer treatment is excellent and supposedly better than the stuff SW uses. Tenifer can't be used in the US because of environmental concerns.

I'm pretty sure the SW99 is a fine gun but since the P99 is the original I went with that. Deutsche Gruendligkeit and all that. That's not to say my P99 has been without trouble, of course. My experience with S&W support has been good so far but some of the problems really never should have happened. Same as my Audi S4. Likewise it hasn't stopped me from driving and enjoying it

 

[zeevbi]

Quote[/b] (Nocturnal @ Mar. 15 2005,2:48)]SW uses stainless while Walther uses Tenifer treated carbon steel. The tenifer treatment is excellent and supposedly better than the stuff SW uses.

To the best of my knowledge the S&W Melonite process offers the same features that the Tenifer offers.  There is one difference Tenifer is transparent and the black layer as developed by Glock is a backed polymer material and purely cosmetic.  The S&W black color is part of the process and is a result of the oxidation phase and is supose to be stronger than the polymer layer of the P99.

 

[JDog]

I have been very pleased with the results from the SW99. Functionally i don't think there is any difference in the two guns.

Personally i like the looks of the P99 better and the largger trigger box without the bump, where as SW still has the bump, but that can be removed with little effort.

As for the compact, i know little about and only have seen the SW so i do not know of the differences. I would, from experience, wait a few years before forking out the change for a Compact so that they can make changes to it, this being the first year it out, it possibly has minor problems.

Just my ideas

 

[Navy87Guy]

Quote[/b] (Echotech @ Mar. 15 2005,2:39)]I currently carry a Taurus PT-111, and before all of you start telling me that I carry a sub standard gun, I am aware of the feeling out there on the PT-111.

So, I am thinking about buying a sw99c as my new carry gun. I have held a P99 full size and I must admit, the grip fit my hand like a glove. It was the best feeling gun I have ever held. I was very pleased. My question is this, does the sw99 feel the same?

Well, the P99 is signficantly larger than your PT-111 (almost an inch longer), but it's still not a "huge" gun. If you like the way it feels in your hand (and I agree...probably the best ergonomics of anything I've handled) then I recommend you handle a P99C before you decide. I've yet to find a compact gun that feels as good in my hand as the full size model. I'm leaning toward using the P99 as my carry gun -- comfortable, accurate, reliable and not overly large.

Jim

 

[ledges]

Tennifer-treated carbon steel is also used by Glock and from an engineering stand point, the difference between Tennifer-treated carbon steel vs. non-Tennifer-treated carbon steel is slight.

 

[MLB]

Quote[/b] (ledges @ Mar. 16 2005,7:12)]... from an engineering stand point, the difference between Tennifer-treated carbon steel vs. non-Tennifer-treated carbon steel is slight.

I'd have to disagree with that. The difference between Tennifer treated and non treated carbon steel is significant. Perhaps you meant the difference between Tennifer and Melonite?

Regarding the SW99 and the P99, they are nearly the same gun. The only major difference is in the slide. While I do enjoy my P99, I can't see putting down the S&W version and citing quality or tolerence issues. Our revered German engineering has allowed cracked frames, malfunctioning striker assemblies, non-performing followers, and more exploding floorplates than I'd like to mention.

I'm sure the S&W version has the same problems here and there (excepting the incontenent magazines, they seem to be immune from them), but I think that if someone actually took a sample of each, you'd find little difference in quality or accuracy.

(This is heretical stuff to be posting on a Walther board, but I've got my asbestos shorts on

)

 

[Nocturnal]

Eh, the exploding floorplates were made in Italy, not Germany

 

[zeevbi]

Quote[/b] (Nocturnal @ Mar. 16 2005,2:15)]Eh, the exploding floorplates were made in Italy, not Germany

....and passed Walther's QA ....

 

[P88]

Quote[/b] (zeevbi @ Mar. 16 2005,1:48)]

Quote[/b] (Nocturnal @ Mar. 16 2005,2:15)]Eh, the exploding floorplates were made in Italy, not Germany

....and passed Walther's QA ....

Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps Mec-Gar changed the polymer mixture and didn't tell Walther. Or maybe Mec-Gar wasn't watching their quality control.

I've got 15 10 round .40 magazines with everything from black, orange and blue followers and have had zero problems.

I've also got one 12 round magazine with no problems.

 

[P88]

Quote[/b] (MLB @ Mar. 16 2005,12:12)]

Quote[/b] (ledges @ Mar. 16 2005,7:12)]... from an engineering stand point, the difference between Tennifer-treated carbon steel vs. non-Tennifer-treated carbon steel is slight.

I'd have to disagree with that.  The difference between Tennifer treated and non treated carbon steel is significant.  Perhaps you meant the difference between Tennifer and Melonite?

Regarding the SW99 and the P99, they are nearly the same gun.  The only major difference is in the slide.  While I do enjoy my P99, I can't see putting down the S&W version and citing quality or tolerence issues.  Our revered German engineering has allowed cracked frames, malfunctioning striker assemblies, non-performing followers, and more exploding floorplates than I'd like to mention.  

I'm sure the S&W version has the same problems here and there (excepting the incontenent magazines, they seem to be immune from them), but I think that if someone actually took a sample of each, you'd find little difference in quality or accuracy.

(This is heretical stuff to be posting on a Walther board, but I've got my asbestos shorts on  

 )

I don't know why you all think I "bash" S&W. I happen to own many S&W guns. Revolvers all. Love them.

There is a difference between the Walther and S&W 99's. Maybe not a great one, but there is one. Is it worth the extra $50 or so bucks? Only you can decide.

Functionally they are the same. Accuracy goes slightly to Walther. $50 bucks worth? You decide.

Quality? My opinion....Walther. $50 bucks worth? You decide.

Performance, reliability, etc. Both. Is the Walther worth $50 extra bucks? You decide.

Warranty and Help...S&W (S&W could care less about Walther from my experiences)

So which one should you get? Go get a SIG

 

[Nocturnal]

Quote[/b] (zeevbi @ Mar. 16 2005,3:48)]

Quote[/b] (Nocturnal @ Mar. 16 2005,2:15)]Eh, the exploding floorplates were made in Italy, not Germany

....and passed Walther's QA ....

If Walther followed general industry practices QA and engineering actually pointed out that the magazines were sub-par but management overruled them and shipped anyway.

 

[Hal8000]

Friggin pencil pushers!!!

 

[MLB]

Quote[/b] (P88 @ Mar. 16 2005,4:30)]I don't know why you all think I "bash" S&W.  I happen to own many S&W guns.  Revolvers all.  Love them.

There is a difference between the Walther and S&W 99's.  Maybe not a great one, but there is one.  Is it worth the extra $50 or so bucks?  Only you can decide.

Functionally they are the same.  Accuracy goes slightly to Walther.  $50 bucks worth?  You decide.

Quality?  My opinion....Walther.  $50 bucks worth?  You decide.

Performance, reliability, etc.  Both.  Is the Walther worth $50 extra bucks?  You decide.

Warranty and Help...S&W  (S&W could care less about Walther from my experiences)

So which one should you get?  Go get a SIG  

P88,  I wasn't singling you out intentionally.  Hope it didn't come off that way.  BTW, it was "put down" rather than "bash", but all that aside, I'd agree with you on the $50.  If I had to do it again, I'd buy the Walther.  I think it looks better.

I just don't agree that the Walther has been proven in any way better than the S&W.  The one accuracy test I saw proved that one P99 was shot better than one SW99 by one person by about a quarter of an inch.  "In God we trust, all others bring data."  

  (I'm with you on the SIG though

)

Nocturnal,  yes, the magazines were made by Mec-Gar in Italy.  If the steel failed, would you blame Walther or Nucor?  I bought a Walther handgun, I feel that they should be responsible for all of the OEM parts.

 

[Nocturnal]

MLB: you wrote:

Quote[/b] ]Our revered German engineering has allowed cracked frames, malfunctioning striker assemblies, non-performing followers, and more exploding floorplates than I'd like to mention.

After which I said they were made in Italy, not Germany. I never said I didn't hold Walther responsible for picking MecGar magazines and not being more pro-active in replacing all the bad ones. So I'm not really sure where this comments comes from:

Quote[/b] ]Nocturnal, yes, the magazines were made by Mec-Gar in Italy. If the steel failed, would you blame Walther or Nucor? I bought a Walther handgun, I feel that they should be responsible for all of the OEM parts.

 

[MLB]

It comes as a result of my reading more into your post than was there apparently

. I read your comment as a delegation of responsibility, as I didn't describe them as being manufactured there.