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Discussion Starter #1
whats the best/safest ammo available,for a carry gun.i want a heavy bullet but NO exit wound?let me know you guys know more than i do,im a new holder of a concealed weapons permit./also what if i do shoot the bad guy and it goes through and hits someone,is this manslaughter.
 

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Glauser SafetySlugs? Frangible projectile literally shatters on impact with anything. A little pricey, but no chance of over-penetration...

I like Speer Gold Dot 124gr. +p myself. (9mm) But that's just my 2 cents...
 

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What caliber? For the most part stay away from ball ammo for defensive use. Save the ball ammo for practice.

Also I would advise that you seek out training, if you already haven't.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
9mm the reason i went with this round was because of the 15/16/17 round mags.but i love the .40 but it only carries
12 rounds so i went with the 9mm.
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (gunmanguns @ Jan. 06 2004,2:27)]
also what if i do shoot the bad guy and it goes through and hits someone,is this manslaughter.
Depeds who your lawyer is. Quite likely though you could be charged with manslaughter and the charge has a reasonable chance to stick. Most places that give firearms training say know what's behind your target.
 

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I disagree with your reason for caliber selection and the comment regarding the likelihood of being charged with manslaughter.

First of all, in a self defense scenario you need to hit your target not spray 15 shots in the general direction. (Training,training, training.) If you haven't hit the person within three shots, he has probably closed the distance and is grappling with you or has decided to run for the hills. It's not like the movies where you're going to have a pitched gun battle. (If you're worried about that carry an extra mag) Keeping this in mind, caliber choice is important. Most law enforcement agencies are switching from 9mm to .40S&W for a reason, stopping power.

Regarding the manslaughter question, use hollowpoints, preferably Hydra-shok or in the alternative the same brand your local police department is using. Hydra-shok should not over-penetrate. It's one of those things, if you get pulled into court, you don't want to explain why you have Crook-killer GT ammo. You want to say, "I only use what my local police department or Federal law enforcement agencies use, nothing more destructive." Those organizations set the reasonableness standard. Although you may know more than them when it comes to guns and ammo, you don't want to depart from the standard they have set.

Even if your bullet did overpenetrate, it's not likely that you would be charged with manslaughter. If you had a legitimate self-defense scenario the collateral damage would likely be pinned on the aggressor. Many jurisdictions have something called the felony murder rule. Simply put, it means all occurrences that flow from the commission of a felony are the responsibility of the individual committing the felony. If a bankrobber comes into a bank and pulls a gun and someone suffers a heart attack, it's the robber's fault. If the police kill someone in a traffic accident rushing to the scene or shoot someone accidentally in a gunfight, again, it's the robber's fault.

Lastly, in court, juries do value a person's right to engage in self defense. D.A.'s offices know this and hesitate to spend the resources to bring a case to court that will be the victim of jury nullification. Certain areas of the country are less understanding when it comes to the use of firearms. However in NYC (not a gun friendly town) Bernard Goetz, the infamous subway vigilante got convicted of violating the city's gun laws (possession and concealed carry w/o a permit) not of shooting three armed individuals who demanded money.

-Get trained and be alert of your surroundings. Criminals look for a soft target. Being alert makes you a more difficult mark. Also be smart. If you see three individuals hanging around your vehicle do not go outside for a confrontation because you are armed. Call the police. Remember deadly force can be used to defend your life, not your property.


 

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Discussion Starter #7
one of the reasons i also picked 9mm was the ammo was cheaper not by mutch but enough for me,second hi-cap mags are good to have anyone will agree with that.i never want to be ill prepared for anything,gun battles do and can happen any time/anywhere.it dousnt hurt having 5/10 more shots,it takes up the same space anyway.and when im at the range its a pain to take 10 shots and then reload.

and as far as the manslaughter that was a question NOT a comment....

im not angry/and i do love the .40s&w i rant and rave to everyone about it.but i love the p99 more, and its .40 just dousnt hold enough rounds for me/#### i might just get a slide and barrel and have both.------look out for this guy
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (gunmanguns @ Jan. 06 2004,3:57)]and as far as the manslaughter that was a question NOT a comment....
With the Hi-cap mags you're talking 16 in 9mm vs. 12 in .40S&W, so you're not talking 5-10 extra shots. Everyone has their own preferences. If four extra rounds of 9mm make you more comfortable, enjoy them.

I know the manslaughter issue was a question, from ASCI White, it was a comment. I was replying to his comment while answering your question. -Clearly "Caps" were needed so I could be set straight.

Hurling insults after receiving advice is poor form and degrades you. Although I could have, I didn't impugn your intelligence or character. You asked for opinions in an open forum and you got them. Not all of them are going to agree with your perceptions of the world. Get used to it.

If you want to have a Wild West shootout at your car and carry super-scary ammo that make cops think you're not right, enjoy the matching bracelets and your time at the Graybar Motel. However, I thought the very purpose of your post was to learn how to avoid these things. I guess you weren't that serious about it.

 

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Discussion Starter #10
yikes i really didnt mean to get you so mad,thats not my intentions.what insults i cant find any that ive said about you
look for yourself theres not one in there/the manslaughter issue/look at how you worded yourself it makes it look like your talking to me


"I disagree with <your> reason for caliber selection <and> the comment regarding the likelihood of being charged with manslaughter"
no comma or period.
also there is a 17 round mag out there 5 extra for one<one> clip/or 10 extra for 2<two>clips
i also never disagreed with anybodies ammo i never said anything about super bad guy killer ammo/sorry if i wanted to be safe for the people around me.you cant tell me that a wild shoot out couldnt happen/why do we have guns strapped on in the first place.im the kind of guy who likes alot of ammo/ok so i have my own preferance. i never meant to hurt your feallings.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
yikes i really didnt mean to get you so mad,thats not my intentions.what insults i cant find any that ive said about you
look for yourself theres not one in there/the manslaughter issue/look at how you worded yourself it makes it look like your talking to me


"I disagree with your reason for caliber selection and the comment regarding the likelihood of being charged with manslaughter"
no comma or period.
also there is a 17 round mag out there 5 extra for 1 one clip/or 10 extra for 2 two clips
i also never disagreed with anybodies ammo i never said anything about super bad guy killer ammo/sorry if i wanted to be safe for the people around me.you cant tell me that a wild shoot out couldnt happen/why do we have guns strapped on in the first place.im the kind of guy who likes alot of ammo/ok so i have my own preferance. i never meant to hurt your feallings.
 

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Wow. Hot topic!

I have to disagree somewhat about chosing a weapon based on capacity. Ultimately, shot placement will stop your opponent, not how many rounds you can send down range. In the real world, you are responsible for the terminal resting place of each round you fire.
I felt very comfortable carrying my 7+1 capacity 45 ACP for years and only switched to a 9mm because of size and that I hated carrying extra ammo off-duty.
But you must go with what you feel most comfortable with.

My choice for ammo is Federal 145 grain Hydra-Shok (9mm) or Federal 180 grain Hydra-Shok (.40). This ammo has a long track record in real-world shootings and excellent expansion without over-penetration.
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (BreakerMorant @ Jan. 06 2004,3:29)]First of all, in a self defense scenario you need to hit your target not spray 15 shots in the general direction. (Training,training, training.)

Regarding the manslaughter question, use hollowpoints, preferably Hydra-shok or in the alternative the same brand your local police department is using. Hydra-shok should not over-penetrate. It's one of those things, if you get pulled into court, you don't want to explain why you have Crook-killer GT ammo. You want to say, "I only use what my local police department or Federal law enforcement agencies use, nothing more destructive." Those organizations set the reasonableness standard. Although you may know more than them when it comes to guns and ammo, you don't want to depart from the standard they have set.

Even if your bullet did overpenetrate, it's not likely that you would be charged with manslaughter. If you had a legitimate self-defense scenario the collateral damage would likely be pinned on the aggressor. Many jurisdictions have something called the felony murder rule. Simply put, it means all occurrences that flow from the commission of a felony are the responsibility of the individual committing the felony. If a bankrobber comes into a bank and pulls a gun and someone suffers a heart attack, it's the robber's fault. If the police kill someone in a traffic accident rushing to the scene or shoot someone accidentally in a gunfight, again, it's the robber's fault.

Lastly, in court, juries do value a person's right to engage in self defense. D.A.'s offices know this and hesitate to spend the resources to bring a case to court that will be the victim of jury nullification. Certain areas of the country are less understanding when it comes to the use of firearms. However in NYC (not a gun friendly town) Bernard Goetz, the infamous subway vigilante got convicted of violating the city's gun laws (possession and concealed carry w/o a permit) not of shooting three armed individuals who demanded money.
Many PD's today are switching to ball ammo, hollow points are also illegal in a few jurisdictions.

Courts don't value jack or shit. How many people have gotten off cause some miserable juror couldn't decide one way or another? What about OJ. How about Jackson?

Although there may be no criminal charge there are also (which we forgot to mention) civil lawsuits YAY! After you cap your opponant who could be comming at you with two AK-47's and 8 bandoliers of ammo you too can be sued out of existance.

Welcome to the US of A where only the rich survive.
 

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Ball ammo???

Wow. Talk about over-penetration and not transferring much energy to your target!

What PD's use FMJ for duty??
 

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (gunmanguns @ Jan. 06 2004,3:59)]i didnt know satens under ground layer was a swear word/sorry
If you didn't mean any offense that I apologize for the slight. I figured you were directing the quoted line above at me since I mentioned some legal stuff. Your previous post had something cut out, at the end, where you were talking about beware of that guy. -Then, in a follow-up post, you typed the quoted line full of misspellings, apparently in an attempt to get past the censoring software.

Being mentioned in the same sentence as Lucifer hardly seemed flattering. You say you didn't mean to be insulting, fine. I consider this closed.


 

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Discussion Starter #16
im sorry i was trying to say "h*ll, i just might buy a .40 slide".and my other post was saying "i didnt know h*ll was a swear word".this was not pointed at you.again im very sorry.
when i said look out for this guy i meant look out for this icon :blues:he looks shady dont ya think.
very big miss understanding
and i also agree with you on your ammo pick/its a very good idea to use what local police do.
 

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I would suggest that you go to a good gun store and look over their ammo selection. Look for good personal defense ammo like Federal Hydro-shoks or Cor-Bon. This stuff is expensive, but I would advise you to buy a box and shoot it up to make sure it runs through your weapon ok. If it works and you get a good group with it on paper at 10 yards, I'd say you're good to go. (Some like to get a good group at 25 yards). Then go buy another box to use as your carry ammo.

Then I would really suggest you take a training course. You will do youself more good by learning how to make good shot placements, than you will to buy the best ammo and never learn how to shoot. You might also consider getting involved in IDPA. This is a very good sport that helps in your defensive training regemin.
 

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Oh-  I see...  When you wrote "layer" I thought you were trying to write "lawyer" as a dig not "lair" as in Lucifer's hot-spot.  

-Ok, we're cool.  
 
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