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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, I just read the manual for the SW99 (assuming it's like the P99). Sorry I don't own a P99 yet. It specifically says to carry in DA mode. So, my question is how many of you carry this way and how many of you carry "cocked" for the "long single action" pull?

With the HK LEM there is no decocking, so I would assume it's more like the "long single action" pull of the P99 series after an AS model has been cocked. Is this a correct assumption?

Thanks.
 

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I think you will find almost 99% of people on here carry decocked with a long DA pull for the first shot. Why? Safer comes to mind. If you pull the slide back and have the stricker cocked, you will notice that trigger can be set 1/2 way back and ready for a SA shot. This pull is very light and if you try to carry like this, you are at a much greater risk of firing early.

Practice with an unloaded gun first and dry-fire to see the different pulls. Only you can make that call of what is better for you, but I would suggest decocked with a round in the chamber for you everyday carry.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the fast reply!!

Like I said, I was just curious; as the LEM feature of HK is always what I'd call "light." I'd like to have the LEM functionality on a quality gun like a Walther without the HK price :).
 

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The LEM trigger is still heavier than carrying the A/S in the way you are describing.

If you have the gun cocked with the trigger forward - the amount of pressure needed to pull the trigger is VERY light.
 

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I think more people would carry in single action mode if it were a long trigger pull. The problem is that the first half of the trigger pull takes literally almost no force after which the trigger resets to the length of the standard single action trigger pull. So instead of a long single action pull you have a short single action trigger pull. When you handle a P99, you will be able to feel the difference for yourself and make your own judgment about what feels better.

Jeff
 

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Ditto here - decocked, round in the chamber. If you ever have to draw your weapon to defend yourself you'll have so much adrenaline flowing that you won't even notice the DA trigger pull.
 

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SA holstered=Kid DY-NO-Mite!

The SA trigger pull is so light that a fly landing on it could set it off! You certainly need a round chambered for practical self defense use, but DA mode means you have to think before you pull the trigger. SA mode holstered is like having a stick of dynamite in your pants with a lit match 1/4 inch away. The only holes I like in my clothes come from old age, not ringed by gun powder! I don't think most people will be involved in old west style gunslinger duels anyway, so not being able to shoot from the hip with SA trigger pull probably won't be a big problem....
 

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DA always.

The AS "trigger foward SA" is only useful (in my mind) if you are in a situation where you might have to use your firearm but aren't sure(beacuse something just went "bump" in the night, for example). The trigger forward allows you to have instant access to a SA shot without having to manipulate the slide, but it isn't right on the threshold of discharging like in true, trigger back SA.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ok, I understand now. Didn't realize they were this light on SA! :) Sweet. How short is the reset? And...lastly, how heavy is the DA pull?

Many thanks...again! :)
 

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The reset after firing is about the same as the click on the Long AS pull after racking the slide without a decock. About 1/2 distance of full DA pull. Hope that was clear enough as I am finding it difficult to put into words.

The DA pull # ... I am not sure of. I am sure there are others more knowledgible than myself who can answer that question.
 

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Ok, I understand now. Didn't realize they were this light on SA! :) Sweet. How short is the reset? And...lastly, how heavy is the DA pull?

Many thanks...again! :)
On a P99 AS, the double action pull weight is 11 lbs whereas the single action pull weight is 5 lbs. This is according to the walther website.

On a side note of interest, QA models have an 8 lb trigger.

Weights are the same regardless of caliber and size (compact vs. regular).
 

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As said, carry in D/A is much, much, safer. Also, remember if you are in a situation where you feel you will need to use your gun, and it is not an instant threat, you can rack the slide 1/8 of an inch or so and be in S/A mode.

Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hey folks,

Please don't get me wrong, but if I understand all of you correctly, then by your rules the HK LEM system is unsafe since it's either 7-8 lbs pull or 5lbs of pull with only the longer pull for the first shot being the "safety" other than one's brain.

Why then, is the P99/SW99 AS different from a safety perspective? I'm still trying to figure this out. I'm really trying to want a P99 :).

Thanks again.
 

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The reset after firing is about the same as the click on the Long AS pull after racking the slide without a decock. About 1/2 distance of full DA pull. Hope that was clear enough as I am finding it difficult to put into words.

The DA pull # ... I am not sure of. I am sure there are others more knowledgible than myself who can answer that question.
I've been doing a fair amount of reset drills lately, and on my gun, the reset seems to be about half the distance as the pull from when you lock the trigger in SA mode.
 

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Hey folks,

Please don't get me wrong, but if I understand all of you correctly, then by your rules the HK LEM system is unsafe since it's either 7-8 lbs pull or 5lbs of pull with only the longer pull for the first shot being the "safety" other than one's brain.

Why then, is the P99/SW99 AS different from a safety perspective? I'm still trying to figure this out. I'm really trying to want a P99 :).

Thanks again.
You know ... I was just looking at a H&K USP today and doing some research on the LEM trigger when you posted this. I must say that I am not totally sure I understand the system, but as I read it, the first shot on the H&K is a full DA pull at a lower pound pull than standard and if you don't fully reset the trigger then the hammer is left 1/2 cocked so you have a much lighter pull for subsequent shots. If I am correct on this, then this is essentially the QA trigger system but with a longer pull on the first shot. Now in regard to your question, I think where people are addressing a safety concern is in the length of pull. Once again your first shot is going to be a Long Hard Pull with the P99, and the H&K is a longer pull. If you set the AS trigger and use it to carry you not only have a light pull, but also a very short pull. This is not possible on the LEM trigger since when you let of the trigger and it is reset you will go back to a long DA pull (I think I am correct on this, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) You know you don't want to pull the trigger if you aren't ready to fire, but if you start the pull on the long DA pull you can realize what you are doing and possibly stop the problem before you do something you might regret a lot sooner than if you compare that same pull to the SA short pull.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
My understanding WAS AS mode of an AS trigger is a LONG single action 5lb pull and decocking makes it a LONG double action pull at 12lbs.

Now, here's how LEM works. 7-8lbs is the "normal" LEM modules so let's use that; but they can be lowered to 5lbs (my plan).

1) Let's start with the condition I'll call "double action" though it's not. This would be the mode one would be in if the trigger was pulled and the slide not racked. This allows for another pull of the trigger to get the hammer to strike. Weight 14lbs...Pull is just HEAVY, but smooth. Pull Length: LONG (I don't know exact distance on this, but I think it's 0.5-0.6" maybe a little more, but not much.

2) LEM First pull or no "riding the reset." This is what happens when the slide is racked. The hammer is pre-cocked or something. Makes for the same 0.5-0.6" pull (again, that's a guess), but now at 8lbs. Pull, very smooth and light until you get to a point, then it stacks a little to get 8lbs. Like a 2 stage match trigger on a rifle in a sense.

3) Having fired off a round, and not releasing the trigger all the way (ride the reset), the gun still has 8lb pull on the trigger, but now only about a 0.3-0.33" reset. Again, very smooth. So, the reset is longer than the P99 and even the SA mode of a normal HK DA/SA action, but it's SMOOTH (IMO)!!!!!!!!!

4)If you don't ride the reset, then the next pull reverts back to my description of "2."

That's about the best way to describe LEM. Again, sounds a LOT like AS in the "AS" mode.

So, clear as mud or what? :) :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I should add, that on LEM, unless you've modified a DA/SA and left the decocking levers and such, Factory LEM does NOT have a decocking option. It is what it is.
 

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H&K makes a version that has a button on the BACK of the slide that allows the LEM to be fully decocked if desired. I saw it last week at the SHOT Show.

There is a lot to be said for NOT carrying a partially cocked pistol. A good proportion of ADs occur in the act of reholstering the pistol. Distortion of the holster, or entanglement of top straps or clothing as the gun is shoved it can easily fire a pistol with a light trigger pull.

Me, I'm with Madison7 above: I like my clothes and skin unperforated, and I accept the risk that I will not win any fast-draw contest. The minute you put one up the spout you have put yourself in a danger zone, no matter how "safe" the mechanism, and if it takes only movement of the trigger to fire it, your risks are exponentially greater. Not just from accidental trigger pulling, but from drop-fires, mechanical failures and a wide variety of other causes.

Nobody ever shot himself or some innocent bystander by leaving the chamber empty, and that's how I leave it. Others may view this as the trembling fear of an old lady, but it makes me feel a lot safer. I'm not a soldier in a war zone or a cop and don't have to put my life on the line every day. The risk of criminal action against me is minimal, certainly less than the risk of a moment's inattention, mistake or carelessness. I've seen too many fatal or serious firearms accidents to be complacent about it.

M
 
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