[Que]

Tomorrow I pick up the P5. Ten days was all I could stand to leave it on layaway. I'll be driving a couple hours south to Macon. The shop has a range so I should be able to shoot it (I always keep 50 rounds of 9mm in the car for my PT111 MilPro) right then and there.

I've got a line on some replacement factory grips, and I'm also going to look at Nills. The nice thing about Walthers is that the steel slides take touch-up nicely so I'll have some fun tomorow evening going over the gun. Photos and maybe a preliminary range report to follow.

Buzz

 

[searcher451]

Congrats, Que. The P5 has become my favorite shooting iron; the consistency and accuracy of the thing amaze me. In its own way, it is every bit the equal to the P99, even if it is a somewhat different animal. Can't wait to hear your range report.

 

[MGMike]

Two suggestions:

1) Arbitrarily postpone the touchup for at least one month. I predict the gun will grow on you, as is, and touchup will cease to be necessary. Also the gun will not have a smell that will drive away wild animals who come within 20 feet. Plus you'll use it more and won't be so concerned about the finish.

2) If the original plastic grips have good checkering, give them a fair trial before you spend the money on wooden grips. The basic problem with some wooden grips on a P5 is that, because there is no steel backstrap, they "give" too much and if you take a iron-solid grip you can feel them disconcertingly flex and you might crack them. The same is true with many SIG/Sauers, such as the P220, 225 and 226. I have not tried the Nill P5 grips, so offer no opinion on them, but I very rapidly removed the Walther factory grips from my P5 and re-installed the plastic panels. And I have arthritic hands....

M

 

[Que]

This is just me, but I've never noticed any odor with a very minor touch-up of a gun. Maybe it depends upon the degree of the touch-up and what you are using, but that isn't within my range of experiences.

Generally I really enjoy a gun with some wear as a badge of use, which is a good thing, but, it depends on the wear. Some I'll touch up, some I won't, and in any event if I do I'm always happy when it is my holster doing the wearing. Half the fun is sitting down with a used gun and determining what should and shouldn't be done.

As to grips, 99% of the time the gun will be shot with factory grips. But, sometimes it's just nice to dress the gun up a bit. I think Nills remain the best bet.

Searcher, from everything I have ever heard about the P5 I suspect that I'm in for a treat. My sleep tonight will be restless in anticipation of hitting the road in the AM.

 

[153]

The P5 was one of the very very few pistols I ever sold that I really miss alot. I just loved that decocker that handles both the slide and hammer, and the trigger on mine was great!!!

Now that I have determined to get a replacement ....opps not Kalifornia importable!!!!

You have no idea how I would like to be on that ride with you tomarrow morning!

Drive Safe!

 

[searcher451]

Be sure to give us a full report on your experience, Que. If you like the P38, then you will absolutely love the P5. I might have to dig one out and head to the range myself -- though there's nothing quite trying one on for the first time. Good luck -- and safe shooting. Salute

 

[Que]

I "just" returned form The Rifleman in Macon Georgia. Great shop. Lots of goodies. Sig, HK, Walther, STI, Glock, Smith and much, much more. I was running late due to typical Georgia 400 traffic south into Atlanta to pick up 75. I knew that I wouldn't have time to shoot the gun so it would amount to a short visit and a turn around home.

The gun offered a few surprises. One was/is a .2 inch diameter recessed flat disk cut into the lower left front side of the slide obviously to obliterate a proof mark. It looks like typical CAI work as thet failed to blue the recess. I have now blued that area and it is not at all noticeable. Otherwise the condition of the gun is very nice, probably at 92%. All of the wear is typical holster wear. The size of the gun surprises me. Just as the PP Super seems to be a PPK on steroids, the P5 seems to be a PP Super on Steroids. Even though I have a P1 I was expecting a larger gun. I like the size a lot.

The trigger is incredibly smooth if not all that crisp, rather velvety. I think I'm going to like it a lot as the reset seems to be very short. The grips are in near perfect condition, and if I buy another set of factory black plastic it will only be to store away. Having held the gun I agree with MGMike on the wood. It doesn't seem necessary. I would only go with a set of wood grips just to have and only if the price was very right.

On the right side of the slide is the CAI stamp. The serial number is 007XXX followed by a V further to the right. On the right side of the frame is the eagle over N, stag horn, and "HK".

So far I'm lovin' it. I'll look at the internals tonight.

 

[searcher451]

Excellent, though that obliterated import mark is something of a surprise (bet you'd like to have a discussion with the guy who pulled that one off). On the other hand, it's tough to disguise the built-in quality of the P5, even after some bozo takes a buzzsaw to it. The P5 is the real deal, to be sure.

Let us know what you think after you run some ammo through it. Salute

 

[Que]

I wonder who removed the proof mark, either in Germany or some monkey business at CAI. At least it is rather well done.

I assume that the "HK" is the date code for 1979, but I thought that the gun's development began in 79. PLus, the frame mounted trigger stop seems to be more consistent with later models.

No matter, internally the gun looks to be in outstanding shape. Not a lot of rounds through it. I'm constantly amazed by how little use many of these ex-police/military guns have seen. My P1 looks to be unissued. I once had an ex-Bundeswehr HK4 that was the same. Many of these "ex" guns seemed to have been carried but shot little.

 

[uncut]

P5 production started in 1978 with serial #001001... delivery to police started late 1978 and for commercial outlets in 1979.... so I think that your serial # should be in line with the date code on the P5
You are correct in pointing out that the frame mounted trigger stop is of later vintage .. this didn't happen till 1990 so that is a bit of a riddle to me.
Pics of police trade P5's I have seen so far had the "BMI" stamp on the left front part of the slide...most of them just had a line stamped over the BMI...
I think pictures could tell more.
Keep in mind that German police is only requiered to shoot 200 rounds a year.

 

[Que]

Here are some down and dirty photos. The serial numbers all match, so I'm wondering if the frame mounted trigger stop was a retrofit. It would seem a lot of bother having to drill through the frame. Maybe its just a very, very early example of the changed stop.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2527/img2402df0.jpg
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/562/img2408kl0.jpg
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5372/img2406ao5.jpg

 

[uncut]

The triggerstop might have been a armory upgrade......
the change didn't happen until after serial 100000 in the year of 1990
but there is no telling for sure
*edit ... the mill mark on the P5 might have been a German done thing... the location is where the BMI used to be but it might have belonged to a different agency.... a few years back there was a run of P7M8 police trade-ins that also had a mill mark to remove the agency ID

I think you got a nice looking P5.... I like the fact that the import marks are on the slide rather than on the front strap like I have seen on some of the other P5's

 

[Que]

Thanks for that info. I would feel better if the gun's police proof was obliterated in Germany rather than by CAI. I've seen the line thru BMI many times and that's what I was expecting. I don't find the disk to be objectionable. Whoever did it seems to have been careful to go no deeper than the depth of the proof mark. I really do appreciate that.

I think that the gun will serve me well. I'm happy with the price ($500 plus $35 sales tax). From a strictly aesthetic standpoint I find the P5 to be one of the most dropdead sexy guns in existence. The flutes on the front of the slide and the contouring is wonderful. Part of what I do for a living (and passion) is to create shapes, artistically functional ones, and this gun scores really high marks in terms of my sensibilities.

The gun also impresses me in that it, along with the PP Super, are sort of transition guns, a link between typical WWII and Post WWII combat/police handguns and what would be coming down the road with the WonderNines and more modern guns. It has the older features like we see in the P38 but has a modern de-cocker that I really haven't seen matched in terms of function or ease of use. With this era of Walthers get the feel of old world craftsmanship with yet more modern features. That's one reason why I've always been a Sig fan, there's a similar feel to the gun. And while it has the heel mag release (arguably a weak point) and the single stack mag, with the re-birth of the 1911 the single stack mag has gotten back a lot of respect.

 

[MGMike]

Here are some down and dirty photos. The serial numbers all match, so I'm wondering if the frame mounted trigger stop was a retrofit. It would seem a lot of bother having to drill through the frame. Maybe its just a very, very early example of the changed stop.

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/2527/img2402df0.jpg
http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/562/img2408kl0.jpg
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/5372/img2406ao5.jpg

Most likely it was retrofitted. Walther may have had a contract with the police agencies to update with any later improvements. I don't think adjustable frame-mounted trigger stops were used on the P5 until some time after the P5C was commercially introduced (originally the P5C also had same fixed stop that is an integral part of the trigger). As late as 1989 the P5 was still shown on factory literature with the stop on the trigger.

What's the proof date?

M

 

[uncut]

Mike
the proof was stated to be "HK" .....
and as I stated the change in the P5's triggerstop occured in 1990 after serial 100000 (100.202)
there was other changes before that... like mag catch change (twice) and twice a hammer change and a new take down lever....

 

[MGMike]

Thanks for that info. I would feel better if the gun's police proof was obliterated in Germany rather than by CAI. I've seen the line thru BMI many times and that's what I was expecting. I don't find the disk to be objectionable. Whoever did it seems to have been careful to go no deeper than the depth of the proof mark. I really do appreciate that.

Some police agencies insist that their property mark be completely removed, not merely defaced. (That's why most surplus P4s have a milled-out slot on the slide). Whichever manufacturer (SIG, H&K, Walther, etc.) supplied the new guns and took the P5s in trade probably was obligated to perform the end-milling on your gun. If there's blue in the cut (I can't tell from the photo) the slide was thereafter also refinished. This was a common practice and would have been done before the trade-ins were flipped to Century.

M

 

[MGMike]

Mike
the proof was stated to be "HK" .....
and as I stated the change in the P5's triggerstop occured in 1990 after serial 100000 (100.202)
there was other changes before that... like mag catch change (twice) and twice a hammer change and a new take down lever....

Sorry, I neglected to scroll back to page one. Mea culpa. M

 

[uncut]

With this era of Walthers get the feel of old world craftsmanship with yet more modern features.

Since the P5 is still a issued sidearm in the Netherlands (might be another Scandinavian country), it is as often times mentioned still in production.
You would be surprised to see how this P5 production line looks like though.
Still the old machines (non CNC for the P5 production) and a lot of hand work done on the slides and frames.
All the slides edges are grinded by hand with a dremel like tool.
So I think what you see as old world craftsmanship is just what it is .... German workmansship at it's best with a lot of hand work.

 

[Que]

If there's blue in the cut (I can't tell from the photo) the slide was thereafter also refinished. This was a common practice and would have been done before the trade-ins were flipped to Century.

M

The cut (the round .2" diameter flat disk) was unblued bare steel. I took my touch-up pencil and blued it. I'd imagine that it is original finish.

Also, their is a four pronged star stamping on the side of hammer. What's up with that?

I'm also a little surprised that the trigger stop retrofit was important to do. What was the issue with the original trigger stop located on the trigger itself?

 

[uncut]

The four pointed star stands for "Form geaendert" meaning design change
I am almost certain now that your P5 went through a upgrade at some point as the new hammer was not in production untill 1986 alongside the the second magazine catch update starting at serial 044501.

The scond hammer change happened after 1992 and is marked with a triangle instead the 4 pointed star.... the 4 pointed star can be found on many Walther's that had updates done to them.... P38, P5, P88.....
mine has it on the take down lever and the hammer.

I am not sure on the triggerstop on the early models... was/is it adjustable ??
If it was it sure could have not had much travel to adjust due to the thicknes of the trigger. When the change came now it was possible to adjust the triggerstop more I would think... but that is just a wild guess