[Jake Starr]

I own a P5 and I am thinking of getting either a P5c or a Sig 239...now I know this a a Walther P5 board but does anyone have experience with these two and are they comparable or are they "apples" and "oranges?" What do you think about the comparison between the two?

 

[banddr2]

On paper they probably are pretty close in dimensions. The p239 is a fine handgun, my only problem with Sigs are their slightly higher bore axis caused by their trigger configuration. I always feel like my trigger finger is reaching down more than on the P5 and P5C. Or, maybe about the same, nothing like a P99. The P5C is more accurate, but for defense shooting that isn't as important. I don't own any Sigs anymore because the Walthers are more accurate for target shooting, which is mostly what I use them for. And of course the grips and triggers are different which may make them less accurate for me and maybe more for others.

I would say even though they are close in dimensions and capacity, it is an oranges to apples comparison. Oranges are getting more expensive

 

[ikiddp5]

Both are excellent choices as ccw handguns, but let's see some details:
The Sig 239 is still in production, so, you can get more accesories for it, like: night sights, more models of holsters available, hogues, crimsom laser sights, cheaper original magazines, etc. Besides you can get the Sig in different trigger configurations, the DAK trigger is excellent for ccw. You can get the 239 with different finishing, stainless steel is an important consideration when picking a ccw gun. Also you can get the SAS 239 wich is nice for carrying. Futhermore the option of buying it in 9mm, .40, or .357sig is also a big advantage. The 239 is a very reliable and accurate gun. So, despite I love my P5c I have to recomend the Sig 239.

 

[submoa]

You need to specify what you want the gun for.

P5's smaller size makes it more concealable. P5 is out of production and is more of a collector gun. This also means service and support is lacking. A brand new, unused example would be hard to come by. The P5 is more accurate, but this advantage is reduced in defensive shooting. I would choose the P5 as a backup gun or as one for casual use or collecting. As a backup gun, I prefer the PPK in an ankle holster... but then this would turn into a PPK vs SIG 232 debate.

SIG 239 is in current production. Service, support and parts are available although SIG is notorious for rude telephone manners (caters more to LEO than consumers). I love the DAK trigger and the deburring of the SAS version makes for more comfortable carry. .40 and .357 caliber options gives you choices for stopping power. The big deciding factor would be the need for nightsights which are available for SIG. I would choose the SIG 239 as a primary duty weapon for concealed carry.

If you need an open carry duty gun, then get a high cap 9 or 1911 .45

 

[Jake Starr]

Okay not thinking of either gun for CCW...for that I have my P99c or
Keltec .380...had a friend of mine had is gun confiscated because he forgot it was in his luggage at the airport. I wouldn't want a really nice or rare piece picked up and thrown around by a security guard.

This gun would mainly be for pleasure shooting. Even if I wanted too, I could get night sights for the P5. I am really looking to see how many here either owned or fired both in comparison and was looking for their opinions.

 

[mike468]

I've had both a 239DAK SAS and a P5C, the former in .357Sig/.40S&W. I considered them both for CCW. Of the two, I now only own the P5C. I found the Sig to shoot remarkably easy in either calibre. But for me, it always felt out of balance and top-heavy. In addition, the grip turned out to be too short for my hand. The P5C fits my hand as if made for it and the gun feels perfectly balanced. It draws faster out of its Walter or Kramer holster and is on the target quicker than the Sig did out of Rosen leather, too. I've only been into handguns for a real short time compared to others around here but one thing I've found for myself is that regardless of recommendations and all the reviews I can read, nothing takes the place of how the piece feels and shoots to me in person. Best advice this newbie can offer is that. The P5C isn't supported and is a collector's gun so maybe it's not the best choice for CCW. Plus, I'd hate to have to surrender it to LEO under any circumstances. For those reasons the 239 is a better choice. Still, to me, I have to wear the thing and that makes a big difference.

 

[banddr2]

This gun would mainly be for pleasure shooting. Even if I wanted too, I could get night sights for the P5.

That's all I needed to know.


BUY THE P5C!!!!


Seriously, as a collector there is more design and craftsmanship put in the Walthers of the late 20th century. The P239 are pumped out of a factory in New Hampshire I think (may be wrong on that one). There are tons of P239's and only a few thousand P5C's around. IMO the P5C handles better than the P239. If I were in a dessert and I only had two guns to choose from.............. you know what I mean.

 

[submoa]

This gun would mainly be for pleasure shooting. Even if I wanted too, I could get night sights for the P5. I am really looking to see how many here either owned or fired both in comparison and was looking for their opinions.

Get the P5C or even better P5SF. The difference between the P5 and 239 is like the difference between a Stradivarius and a Yamaha violin. Both will get the job done, but there is the definite patina of finesse with the P5.

Make sure of the condition of the P5 since the ones available are not new.

 

[MLB]

A P5SF? That's new to me. Where can I find info on this one?

 

[uncut]

The P5c "SF" was a run of P5c that was made for the British SAS
The British military designation for the P5c was "L102A1" which is engraved on the slides of these P5c's, these P5c's also had a phosphate finish

so the "SF" comes from the military SAS contract.... Walther delivered about 3000 of these P5c's
and just a FWIW... there was some P5c's that has a heel mag release just like the P5 which was changed at serial # 155.569 in 1996

 

[jehzsa]

FWIW, if you choose the P5c, don't even think of putting +P ammo through it. In that context, the P239 outperforms it. But do not feed it a steady diet.

After some use, be warned that P239 owners complain of the slide rattling. Seems to be normal for the weapon and doesn't seem to affect accuracy or reliability. But the rattling is reported to be quite annoying.

Beyond that, they are both excellent guns. So in my view it all boils down to which one fits you better. And for that, handling them is the only way. So buy both! And after you have become acquainted with them, you just might decide to keep them both.

Kidding! You could probably rent a P239. However, don't be fooled into thinking that the P5 is similar to the P5c. Because I don't think you would be able to rent a P5c.

HTH

PS. Personally, I'd take the P5c.

 

[Jake Starr]

However, don't be fooled into thinking that the P5 is similar to the P5c.

Besides one being a compact in what ways are they different?

 

[jehzsa]

Beyond the obvious, which is shorter, it is thinner and weighs less. But most significant is the size and shape of the handle/grip area and the grips. Makes it very comfortable and form-fitting for people with small hands and rather awkward for people with large hands.

The proportions are better for accuracy in the P5c. Short slide, long handle. Versus the more proportionate dimensions in the P5.

Don't be fooled into thinking that they will handle similarly. They do not. Fit is different. So is feel.

 

[ikiddp5]

Jehzsa , I have shoot around 100 GoldenSaber 124gr +P with my P5c without any apparent damage...that's what I use for ccw. Do you think is it dangerous?

 

[jehzsa]

As in everything, we take our chances. But neither the P5 nor the P5c were made for +P ammo.

Case in point. German armourers installed two new pins right in front of where the retaining pins for the recoil springs of the P5 are. Basically, drill a couple of holes and solder two steel pins in place. The idea was to reinforce that area. Succesful, but they still took a beating.

If their frames were forged steel, I'd say go for it. But they are not. And even if you install X-tra power rec springs, it will slow it down on the way back, but will come back with added force on its way to battery.

A P5c should outlast you and me. But it will not with a steady diet of +P ammo. So you take your chances. Will it blow up in your hand? Probably not. Will there come a time when it will become useless? The way things are, I sure hope it is not at the worst possible moment. Occasional use? Sure, definitely. Steady diet? I sure didn't.

Btw, I'd check it regularly with a magnifying glass. Looking for small cracks with a fine-toothed comb. JUst in case.

 

[ikiddp5]

Thanks for the info Jehzsa!

 

[jehzsa]

You're welcome, Sir.

 

[banddr2]

Beyond the obvious, which is shorter, it is thinner and weighs less. .

Sorry, had to cut in. It is not thinner, it appears to be because of the contour of the slide, but still has the same thickness because of the recoil springs and locking block. But it does feel thinner because of the reshaping of the slide. Jehza is absolutley correct about the P5c handling better, it is just an overall improvement over the P5 more than just making it more compact.

Jehza, you seem to have alot of info on reinforcing the frame. Is this because of the worry of submachine gun ammo accidently being used. I have heard that that ammo is much hotter, I don't know how it compares to +p. But if some unsuspecting German policeman got a hold of some I imagine it could reak havok on a P5 frame.

 

[zonadrill]

I have the p5c and owned the sig 239. The 239 was one of the most accurate pistols I had. It had a wonderful trigger. The grip was a little small, but improved with hogues. Unfortunately, it was just ugly and I could never warm up to it. I like the looks of the p5c (I used to think it ugly, but now it isn't). It is a good size and the grip is comfortable. I do not like the trigger. It is a two stage that has not loosened up for me. I am not very accurate with it and I blame it on the trigger. I would like to get a trigger job some day. If you like the looks of the 239, it is the better handgun. It is also easy to find and much less expensive.

 

[jehzsa]

...reinforcing the frame. Is this because of the worry of submachine gun ammo accidently being used.

No. It was because of the certainty that using +P ammo regularly would render the weapon useless.

I believe you have in mind the Hirtenberger SMG ammo. L7A1, IIRC. Not an issue there if only for the fact that that ammo in a P5 would only require one shot to blow it up. Leaving Hans with a new nickname. Lefty.