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Okay, I am willing to be educated: what is it, precisely, about the current magazine that cures a last-round failure to eject? Higher protrusion of the follower?

(I should have dragged my early P22 out of the safe for a refresher view before getting involved in this thread. I take your point that the breech face is not configured--there's practically no left buttress-- to allow the extractor to positively hold the fired case in position to be ejected, so the extractor is unlikely to be the culprit.)

M
Mike, I dont' believe the P22 has ever had a problem with extraction that was a pistol problem....dirty chamber, yes. The problem was with ejection direction. The pistol would throw hot brass every direction including right between your eyes. There is too much to list here on extractor work I did in experimenting with these pistols but the first step was to peen the original extractor so as to reduce the gap between the extractor tip and the breech face. Note: do not attempt this with the new extractors, they will break. I determined that the problem was due to the extractor not holding the rim close to the breech face.

When firing a blowback operated .22 such as the P22, blowback gasses forcefully blow the spent case out of the chamber. The extractor plays no part, in fact the extractor isn't even necessary. Take yours off and fire it. It will extract fine and eject pretty good too. Not good enough, but pretty good. The extractor is used for manually unloading the pistol. Now having said that, I did find that the extractor should play an important part in ejection direction. What if did was either peen the original extractor tip rearward to reduce the gap and I filed a new extractor out of my barrel nut wrench where I made the gap so precise that the extractor would hold a rim pressed against the breech face. But while this was of no benefit in extracting a fired case.....it was extremely important regarding ejection direction. With a tight extractor, ejection direction was forceful and in a consistent direction. What happens is that when the left side of the rim hits the ejector, a tight extractor catches the right side of the rim and causes the case to pivot over the extractor. So in this situation the extractor plays a "pivotal" role you might say.

I discussed this at length with the engineer responsible for the P22 and other Walther small arms and he agrees but due to the world wide variety of rim thicknesses.....Walther can not install my tight fitting concept. They did however revise the extractor to reduce the gap and that did improve the situation.

I sent all the stuff to VQ and asked if they were interested and they were. Their extractor is more precisely made than the Walther one but still did not close the gap all the way. I'll put up a link to the history on all of this. So, extraction has never been a problem, ejection direction has. One final comment.....the 10th spent case usually does not eject like the previous ones due to the follower not matching a real round. So, I modified the follower on one B mag so that when the mag was empty the follower would sit exactly like when a round was in the magazine. That cured the last case flopping out of the pistol when firing and restored it to forceful ejection. M1911
 

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It still drags, but barely. I can really feel the difference. It's much smoother now.
 

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M1911: Thank you for this extended explanation, but one thing still bothers me.

Bondjamesbond stated, at post #13, that:

"The p-22 in question is new, about 200 rounds fired thus far, and the stovepipe problem just began about 50 rounds ago."

Obviously something changed circa round #150, because he had no complaint about ejection before that.

Redesigning and rebuilding the P22 has no doubt provided for many folks virtually unending enjoyment and intellectual challenge, but in this particular instance I still have a nagging suspicion that bondjamesbond does not need to go so far afield.

(I'm sure glad that when I want to shoot a .22 pistol, I have a selection of PP, PPK and PPK/s Walthers that don't need to be redesigned and reconstructed.)

Anyway, thanks again.

M
 

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My p-22 stovepipes the last round out of the magazine on EVERY firing cycle..... anybody else having this problem? If so, is there a simple (or difficult) solution to this problem?
Are we correct in assuming that you mean by "round" that the case from a fired round is stuck pointing up between the slide and the breach or are you actually saying that a live un-fired "round" is stuck pointing up in a stovepipe
manner. How about this test... load up a mag, switch to shooting with your left hand only and empty the mag. See if the problem goes away.
 

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Are we correct in assuming that you mean by "round" that the case from a fired round is stuck pointing up between the slide and the breach or are you actually saying that a live un-fired "round" is stuck pointing up in a stovepipe
manner. How about this test... load up a mag, switch to shooting with your left hand only and empty the mag. See if the problem goes away.
This is what I was wondering until I re-read his original post. What was confusing with the last spend case stovepiping is that the slide should not be closing. So, I think he meant the last round was not chambering but instead stovepiping which typically means the round is caught between the slide and the chamber. Now it is certainly possible for a spent case to stovepipe but that shouldn't happen after the last round if the slide stop is operating properly. Limp wristing could cause this but why.....on the last round only. The follower's tension is lowest on that last round. I'm still voting mag problem. M1911
 

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M1911: Thank you for this extended explanation, but one thing still bothers me.

Bondjamesbond stated, at post #13, that:

"The p-22 in question is new, about 200 rounds fired thus far, and the stovepipe problem just began about 50 rounds ago."

Obviously something changed circa round #150, because he had no complaint about ejection before that.

Redesigning and rebuilding the P22 has no doubt provided for many folks virtually unending enjoyment and intellectual challenge, but in this particular instance I still have a nagging suspicion that bondjamesbond does not need to go so far afield.

(I'm sure glad that when I want to shoot a .22 pistol, I have a selection of PP, PPK and PPK/s Walthers that don't need to be redesigned and reconstructed.)

Anyway, thanks again.

M
I think we are going to need some clarification from the OP M. I'm thinking he is not having an extraction/ejection problem at all but that the last unfired round is stovepiping when the breech shoves it out of the magazine. New pistol doesn't necessarily mean 2009 or 2010 which is why I'm asking for the year of manufacture and the type of mag.

You know, pistol in hand and you and I can better evaluate what the issue is. This internet stuff is pretty good, pictures even better, all the information needed even better but gun in hand is the best. Nearly all jams and stovepipes are magazine issues. We will have to get more info from the OP before we can further diagnose this. I had this exact problem in an otherwise 100% pistol with those short slot mags. I had pictures of how the top round was held compared to the long slot models. Both and A and B long slots held the top round exactly the same.....the short slot didn't and that little change, changed everything. Need more information. Would be interested if another shooters mags would solve this. M1911
 

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I took the gun out tonight and had several FTFs and a few stovepipes. I'm not sure what has changed but the gun didn't used to do that. I looked at the mags and they are A mags. I noticed that the first 5 rounds out of the mags had more problems than the last five. I'm not sure if the mags are causing problems or that the slide isn't coming back far enough to pick up the next round.
 

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Do your "A" mags look like the circled one below? (borrowed from M1911)



If so... See Walther's service dept about getting them exchanged for the newer "B" mags or see if you can find some of the older "A" mags with the longer slot, they will work better than the short slot ones. Also, what type of ammo are you using? Be specific.
 

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Yep. That's them. What does the shorter slot do different? What is its purpose?

I've only shot Federal in this gun. I have over 1000 rounds and have only had problems with the last 100.
 

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Yep. That's them. What does the shorter slot do different? What is its purpose?

I've only shot Federal in this gun. I have over 1000 rounds and have only had problems with the last 100.
Have you been sleeping in class again...????? :D You have two things going against you.....mags that are no good and Federal rounds that are too weak. I guess I forget that everyone doesn't know the history of the mags and since 99% of the stuff I've posted on the P22 is at RFC and that we've been over this stuff and over it a thousand times.....that new shooters come along with the P22 all the time. So.......

The original mags had no stagger slots......2001 era, they were soon replaced with A mags with a slot cut into the sides that allowed the top 4 or 5 rounds to "stagger" as they were pushed up to the top of the mag. This keeps the rounds from stacking in a curve. This is particular to .22 ammo because it has an extended rim that when stacked rim on rim makes the stack curve.

Anyway, the stagger slot positions the rounds differently and that cured the feeding issues. Then in about '06 when we were are raising cain about ejection direction......Walther tried an experiment.....and it didn't work, but it did ruin the performance of the magazines. They shortened the stagger slot to the one circled above. I got some with a new pistol and one wouldn't hold 10 rounds, the other was tight and both performed miserably. I had a dozen other A mags with long slots that worked fine. So I contacted the Chief Engineer who was having a fine German beer at the time and said these new mags don't work.

They were soon replaced with the B mags and I got five prototypes to test for them. I used them secretly in the shoot off between the P22 and a Ruger MK bull barrel. But that is another thread. The B is visible in one of the pictures but no one caught it and I was asked to not say anything about them until they were released and I didn't. The Chief enjoyed the thread he wrote.

So, within 6 months the short slot As were discontinued, the Bs introduced and that is where we are today. S&W will replace them. In an otherwise 100% pistol they will cause jams, stovepipes and allow a live round to jump out of the pistol while chambering the next round. Federals are for the most part simply too weak to cycle the P22 reliably. Try to Remington Golden Bullets for your bulk. 36 gr, hp. They should work fine and are much more powerful. Mini Mags work fine too.....cost more though. There are a few duds in all of them. Leave the box of Thunderbolts on the shelf. They will lead up the P22 and that lead is hard to remove.

You need more than two mags anyway so you can visit your local gunshop and pick up some Walther B series mags and see if that doesn't solve you problem immediately. Remember, in a semi auto anything.....the mags are as important as any other part for proper function. :) M1911
 

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Cool! I'll contact S&W and see what happens. Do I just tell them that I have A mags and ask if they will replace them with B mags?
 

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Did you not read the last few posts? It is the short slot "A" mags not the standard "A" mags that had the problem. If you say "Will you replace my "A" mags " they probably will not consider it. Make sure you mention Short Slot "A" mags.... We all have the skim through the posts affliction. ;)
 

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What are you talking about?
 

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I think what jb is talking about and I was going to answer too is that you need to say I have some of the short slot A mags and my pistol is having all sorts of feeding and jamming problems. I would like them replaced with the new B series mags. Thank you. If you get someone who is knowledgeable about the P22 they will know about them.....but if you just say A mags they won't know which ones you are talking about. The long slot A mags are just as good as the B models in my opinion.....but the short slots don't work. Also, if you don't have the new model extractor....I'd ask for that too. Remember the key word is "Problems", I'm having problems like jams, stovepipes and ejecting cases hitting me between the eyes. M1911
 

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Is it better to email or call?
 

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Call the 800# on the back of your manual, punch in 3 for customer service. Make sure whoever you talk to seem to know something about the P22. Walther and S&W both know about this problem. B mags have been out since later '07 if I remember correctly. M1911
 

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They told me to suck-it! :mad:

They're sending me an extractor though. The guy told me that the mags are not a warranty item. I told them that they are making the gun not function. He said that the only improvement was that the fed lips are thicker so that they won't spread over time. He didn't believe that the longer slot had anything to do with anything. :mad:
 

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They told me to suck-it! :mad:

They're sending me an extractor though. The guy told me that the mags are not a warranty item. I told them that they are making the gun not function. He said that the only improvement was that the fed lips are thicker so that they won't spread over time. He didn't believe that the longer slot had anything to do with anything. :mad:
Obviously you got someone who doesn't know anything about P22s. This is old history and I've talked to the Chief engineer responsible for the P22. This is why the B series mags quickly replaced the revised short slot A mags. And, I can guarantee you the short slots will screw up the function of your pistol. I'm PMing a contact for you. M1911
 

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I sent a PM, but the format is a little different than what I'm used to. I guess they went through. Let me know if they didn't get there. M1911
 
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