[SELFDEFENSE]

According to folklore, the earlier P22s (Pre-M serial numbers and non-A mags) had reliability problems, and later fixes cleaned that up when appropriate ammo was used.
Is this your experience? (Asking because I am thinking of replacing my Ruger Mk I plinking platform with a P22).

 

[Deputy]

Good question SELF, and I've been wondering the same thing. I'm thinking of buying the "military version" for plinking, but I don't want a jamamatic

Dep



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[searcher451]

According to folklore, the earlier P22s (Pre-M serial numbers and non-A mags) had reliability problems, and later fixes cleaned that up when appropriate ammo was used.
Is this your experience? (Asking because I am thinking of replacing my Ruger Mk I plinking platform with a P22).

Guys: Your best bet for some fast gleaning of information on the now-notorious P22 is the Rimfire Central site's dedicated discussions on the Walther P22. You can find it at:

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=48

Some folks love 'em, some folks hate 'em, and there seems to be no middle ground if you are an owner. What also seems to be clear is that some of the early P22s worked just fine, and some of the updated P22s have had many of the same kinds of quality issues that have generated a lot of heated discussion, if not out-and-out anger. If you check through earlier threads on this forum, you'll see the same kinds of responses. But the Rimfire Central Walther site is strictly dedicated to the P22, and a great many folks chime in constantly.

Be sure to pay attention to the sticky notices at the top of the board. Happy searching.

 

[Deputy]

Thanks Searcher. I also found that 3-page thread further down where folks gave some great input. I may go out today and buy one. I need a plinker and it would be cool to have one with the same general feel of the P99. I'll check out that rimfirecentral area too. I wouldn't mind tinkering with it if I can at least get it pretty reliable. Heck, a .22 is a pretty funky round to start with, so malfunctions are almost expected with it.

Dep



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[searcher451]

The doggone things really are fun to shoot. I've got one that's NIB (and my intention is to keep it that way), but I also have access to one and use it from time to time. It can be a hoot on the range -- and an inexpensive one, to boot.

If you take a good look at the sticky notices on the Rimfire Central Walther board, which provide a number of tips to get the P22 in good working order, you might be able to take care of at least some of the potential issues with the gun before they'd ever show up; that would help to make the whole shooting experience that much more enjoyable.

Let us know if you get one; I'm sure that everyone would enjoy a full report.

 

[Deputy]

Well I've been doing some intensive reading and I must say that the P22 appears to be a pretty complex piece of machinery. I downloaded a manual made by one of the guys on the Rimfire Central board and good grief...the detailed instructions on takedown and modification looks like it was written for an industrial engineer. Way to complex and too much fiddling for this old coot.
I also checked out the Ruger MKIII, and while I know it's reliable out of the box, I've had one before and they are also a PITA to take apart. I looked at the Marvel .22 conversion kit of the 1911A1 and lots of people like them. But magazine problems seem to be common. Soooooo...I went to the S&W website and found this beast...

It's a Model 617 built on the L-frame. 10-shot with adjustable sights. It's a pricey plinker but at least I don't have to do all kinds of rebuilding when I buy it and it's great for a simple mind like mine to clean.

Dep



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[searcher451]

Tough as it to argue with an S&W, especially one as formidable-looking as Dep's offering above, I'd urge forum members seeking a .22 fix to take a careful look at the Ruger Bearcat, New Model, in either blue or stainless.

http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAFamily?type=Revolver&subtype=Single Action&famlst=10

It's reliable, it's dependable, it's foolproof, it's a joy to shoot, and it will not let you down. Period. I've got four of them -- one is not enough.

 

[Deputy]

Searcher: I liked the Ruger .22/45 because of it having the same "feel" as a 1911. The Ruger I had (stainless bull barrel 5 1/2 inch) NEVER had a jam even when it was all fouled up with lead and crud. They ARE excellent guns. But that weird lever-style takedown was a real finick to get back together.

I guess I am spoiled with the simplicity of the wheel guns. I like the heck out of my semis, but a wheelgun is the epitome of the KISS principle.

Dep



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[searcher451]

Searcher: I liked the Ruger .22/45 because of it having the same "feel" as a 1911. The Ruger I had (stainless bull barrel 5 1/2 inch) NEVER had a jam even when it was all fouled up with lead and crud. They ARE excellent guns. But that weird lever-style takedown was a real finick to get back together.

I guess I am spoiled with the simplicity of the wheel guns. I like the heck out of my semis, but a wheelgun is the epitome of the KISS principle.

Dep

No question. They are as foolproof as it gets, and Ruger makes a quality offering. The Bearcat is a wonderful example of a faultless revolver with a design that approaches perfection. I recommend them heartily to everyone with a .22 itch.

To bring this thread back its intended target, however (all things Walther), I got to thinking about the new .22 that Walther is bringing out, the SP22 -- a gun that one would hope is intended to be a replacement for the ever-controversial P22. The link here is to Earl's (it's not yet listed on the Walther America siste):

http://www.carlwalther.com/sp22.htm

Not sure when these little fellas will be available (perhaps Uncut can weigh in here), but it might be worth the wait to see if the things are any good. It's a nifty-looking critter, to be sure, with a choice of barrel lengths. I have no idea as to the price or reliability or much else, other than the fact that it's a Walther. But that alone is enough to warrant some attention.

Who knows? It may become the next must-have piece.

 

[Deputy]

Hmmmm...looks a lot like a Smith Sigma. I'm lukewarm on the looks. Hopefully they will test it thoroughly before releasing it to the public. The P-22 would have been the PERFECT compliment to the P-99. I dunno why Walther took such a disinterested approach to fixing all it's problems. I just can't justify spending that much money and then having to take it apart and do all kinds of filing and grinding and spring stretching. For that price it should be as perfect as the P-99. Maybe if it was still $200 I could go for it.

And like all new guns (look at the problems with the PPS), I will let those that can't control the buy urge be the testers on the SP22



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[Deputy]

I got my first look and feel of a P-22 when I ordered my Mannlicher rifle. VERY COOL!!

If it wasn't for all the problems and all the homemade fixes you have to do when you buy a new one to keep it from self-destructing, I'd grab one in a heartbeat. The owner uses it in some kind of competition where you need 10 shots. Not sure what type that is. But he says using CCI MiniMag, he hasn't had a failure with it yet.



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[MGMike]

All this salivating over the NEXT polyester-n-zinc POS from Umarex seems a bit odd on a forum dedicated to things Walther.

If you want a SERIOUS .22 autoloader, you don't have to wait for the wheel to be reinvented. There already exists a superb Walther pistol of impeccable craftsmanship and undoubted reliability. Save up some money --including some that would probably be wasted on lesser guns-- and find a nice used Walther or Manurhin PPK, PPK/s or PP in .22.

Second choice: a Colt Woodsman or an Astra Constable.

Or, if you can be content with a wheelgun, any of the S&W K-frame revolvers in .22 is a marvelous choice. My first handgun, some 45 years ago, was a S&W Combat Masterpiece in .22 (it's a 4" K-22) I still have that gun. It's had countless bricks of .22 ammo put through it over the years, and the sideplate's never been off. If anything, it's more delightful than when it was new.

M

 

[Deputy]

MGMike: I gotta agree. There are PLENTY of alternatives, including Walther alternatives, to that new gun. I have a new 617 S&W wheelgun and it's accuracy is nothing short of spectacular. Ruger, Colt, Browning, or the old High Standard .22 are all excellent autoloaders that have already proven themselves and need no tweaking or fiddling with to get them to work.

Dep



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[MGMike]

MGMike: I gotta agree. There are PLENTY of alternatives, including Walther alternatives, to that new gun. I have a new 617 S&W wheelgun and it's accuracy is nothing short of spectacular. Ruger, Colt, Browning, or the old High Standard .22 are all excellent autoloaders that have already proven themselves and need no tweaking or fiddling with to get them to work.

Dep

Sorry I overlooked the High Standard .22 autos, which are technically more refined than the Woodsman, though not quite as svelte. They give flawless performance and last several lifetimes.

The Browning Nomad is also an excellent .22 plinker. Even the Ruger is a fine weapon, its takedown system notwithstanding. (It really doesn't have to be taken apart to be cleaned adequately for reliable functioning. The chamber can be scrubbed with a bent brush through the ejection port, and the rest of the bore doesn't matter. As Roy Dunlap once remarked, "A .22 bore looks the same whether it's been fired 50 rounds or 5,000." )

M

 

[jmoln]

Gotta throw my $0.02 in here. My P22 has been nothing short of perfect in its operation. No failures of any kind. My .22 PPK/S (serial 124xxx) on the other hand was completely unreliable. Now that was back thirty years ago and I knew nothing about mag springs and ammo types so perhaps I could have fixed it but it is long gone.

Next comes the High Standard. My dad and I got involved in the shooting sports in the late 70's with an NRA club. That is where I learned not to trust either a High Standard or a 1911. The HS couldn't handle the ammo the club sold me and the 1911 would only digest hardball, nothing worthy of target shooting. Today I might start tinkering but back then I didn't know any better and probably won't return to those weapons.

So, I'll keep the P22 and even carry it if nothing else is around.

 

[Deputy]

jmoln: I suggest you visit Rimfirecentral.com. They have chapter and verse on the problems with the P-22 as well as a pdf file on what you should do before even sending the first shot down the barrel to make it more reliable and last longer. It's a shame Walther doesn't put more effort into what is really a very cool little gun.

As to 1911 guns...my experience since first qualifying on one back in 1968 is that they were and are one of the most reliable designs of semi-auto pistols ever produced. An owner can strip them down to the last part and reassemble it himself without the use of special tools. Can't do that with most of the modern semi-autos. Right now I own S&W 1911s as well as Colt, Auto Ordnance, and Springfield Armory 1911s. All of them are quite accurate for what they are and what they cost. 1911s were originally combat pistols and most of the newer ones are quite reliable with HP ammo. ALL my S&W 1911s and my Colt Commander XSE handle HP ammo as easily as FMJ. I haven't had the Springfiled out yet, but I suspect it will shoot HP with no problem. The Auto Ordnance is an unknown, but others have tested it with various HP rounds and some it fired and some it didn't. But it is a pretty inexpensive version of a 1911 that is pretty close to the original GI version. So I got no gripe there.

Original High Standard pistols are quite expensive today and are in big demand. When I was on the Ft. Lewis, WA pistol team we were issued 1 High Standard .22 and two 1911A1 Gold Cups. All 3 were reliable and accurate with the ammo we used. The High Standard pistols are back in production again....
http://www.highstandard.com/

I don't know if they are as good as the originals, but it looks like the original lineup is back.



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[searcher451]

A buddy of mine has a High Standard .22 -- one of those long, Woodsman-style models -- that is as reliable as the days are short here in Oregon, now that the rainy season is setting in. It's a pleasure to shoot, accurate as all get out (or at least as accurate as the hand that holds it), and it functions perfectly with all kinds of ammo and never a glitch. He bought it from an LEO for $20 (one of those getting-divorced/everything must go affairs) 30 years ago and has practiced with it every since. Every time I see it and run a couple of magazines through it, I wish to heck I had one just like it.

The moral of the story, I guess, is that some of them work and some of them don't and it's tough to hang the entire brand for want of one unreliable gun.

Cars, on the other hand, are an entirely different can of worms, Why, I'll never, ever drive another of those *#^[email protected]*^ ...

 

[Deputy]

Here's a link on rimfirecentral where a guy's target version P22 broke a slide 3 times!!!!
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96595

After 3 tries with 3 brand new slides from S&W, he finally ended up with a beautiful S&W Model 41. Dang I'd like to have one of those!!!!



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[Deputy]

This was posted on the Rimfire Forum....

"Why can't Walther do all the fixes on this gun before they are sold! Until that happens I'll just use my 2 Beretta neos, no mods needed. I had a P22 that I bought for my wife, after 3 months she said dump this thing and get a gun that works. IF a gunsmith was to make all the mods that are needed, it would cost more than what the gun cost new, I checked on that."

Dep



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[SELFDEFENSE]

After reading on Rimfire Central, I may just continue saving the extra $250 to go directly to the P99, and continue to flog my 27-year old Ruger MK. I when I want to shoot .22LR.