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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Wanting to know exactly how the P22 QD decocking lever worked I finally removed the breech block in mine and had a look. I pretty much had determined how it worked...I just hadn't seen it with my eyes and I don't think there is any information on the net regarding it. First it would probably be helpful to review how the P22 sear and firing pin block work.

The firing pin block is the small oval part you see when you remove the slide and look at the bottom of the breech block. It has a tiny spring on top that holds it down and out of the way of the firing pin unless the front leg on the sear presses it up. When pressed up it physically blocks forward movement of the firing pin. So when in operation of the pistol does this occur. The block is at all times pressed downward and away from the top mounted firing pin unless the more powerful sear spring rotates the sear clockwise, lifting the front arm in the process. The sear is allowed to rotate clockwise when the hammer is cocked. The engagement end of the sear drops down and in front of the primary hammer hook. When this occurs the front arm on the sear pivots up and in the process presses the firing pin block up, freeing movement of the firing pin when the hammer strikes it.

So what did Walther do to add a PP style decocking feature to the pistol. They added an internal sliding lever that is pressed forward by the rotating safety drum and in PP classical style the hammer drops just as the lever is moving onto the red fire dot. In a PP I am told, by MG Mike, that there are 9 different levers of slightly different dimensions that the fitters used to cause a PP safety lever to be properly timed when releasing the hammer. In both pistols the hammer can't be dropped/decocked until the safety is ready to block it in some manner. I don't know if there are different levers for the P22 and I didn't see any markings on the part as you would see on a PP lever.



Above is an old picture I had that shows the sear fully engaged with the primary hammer hook. If you look right above the ejector you will see the front arm of the sear. It is in the raised position and if the slide were installed it would be pressing upward on the bottom of the oval firing pin block, disengaging it. Safety off, firing pin free, hammer cocked. Remember this part.

So basically what Walther did was install a forward slanting lever, spring loaded to stay rearward unless the safety drum is rotated toward safe. As the safety is rotated in this direction the edge of a flat cutout begins to slide the lever forward. The top of the lever is held down but the underside of the slide while the bottom rides along a cutout beside the firing pin. As the lever slides forward it begins to press the firing pin block down. The leverage here is more powerful than that exerted by the sear spring so the front arm of the sear is pressed down by the firing pin block oval. Timing is critical. The hammer cannot be released until the safety drum has been rotated enough so that it blocks the hammer from hitting the rear of the firing pin. The rear of the safety drum is flat when set to fire which allows the hammer to fall all the way into the firing pin. When rotated to safe an edge of the drum sticks out blocking the hammer and an internal cam locks the firing pin by engaging a small slot.

Here it seems Walther ran into a bit of an issue. How this is supposed to work seems straight forward enough except for one thing. I think the firing pin block could not be pressed down enough to cause the sear to disengage with the hammer. So, what did Walther do to cure this....? Something good in my opinion. They lowered the primary hammer hook so the sear had less distance to travel before releasing the hammer. Part one of a trigger job in my book. And that is how it works. Rotate the safety to fire and a small spring, (looks exactly like the one on top of the firing pin block to me) presses the lever rearward and out of play.

All of which makes me wonder....why did they discontinue this after about only one year? And yes if you remove the lever and spring you lose the decocking feature. Pictures anyone?



I will unload the pistol, remove the slide and very carefully drift out the alligator tooth (serrated for some of you) roll pin. This pin holds the breech block in place. I won't whack up my slide with the roll pin drift. Easy does it but the pin is really stuck in there with those teeth.



I don't have to drive the pin all the way out but it must clear the far side of the breech block. Looking good so far.



Next I have to drive the extractor pin down and and remove it from the bottom of the breech block. Again, not whacking up my slide. I will reinstall from the bottom making sure not to drive it to high causing it to expand the metal on top of the slide at the hole. It isn't in there very tight.



The slide can be turned over, the pin be tapped all the way out, then the extractor and spring removed. Check the extractor tip for wear or damage while it is out.



Stock parts.



At this point I need to flip the safety levers to fire. They won't rotate 100% up because I left the retaining pin in place on one side but they rotate enough to free the firing pin from the safety drum cam. I can now tap the entire breech block forward, slide it a bit and work it out of the slide. There are ears made into the side of the block that need to be aligned with slots under the slide. Easy does it. Stuff will fall off...nothing of significance...just don't lose any small parts. And above is what the new breech block looks like including the decocking lever and return spring. In the photo the firing pin spring fell out and I didn't put it back in but the rear of the firing pin should be all the way to the rear.

What they have done is widen the rear of the firing pin channel on the right side to make room for the lever. They have installed a small spring in a separate channel made just for it and they have swagged the left side of the rear block to tighten it against the firing pin. I don't know why. The vertical spring fits against the top of the inside of the slide and presses down on the firing pin block under it. Careful reinstallation is required to keep this spring in position. Some people would add a dab of grease to stick little parts like this together until assembled then flush the grease out. I don't find that necessary.

However, when you reinstall the breech block press the firing pin block up and allow it to drop several times to make sure the spring is still on top of it and in the correct position.



All of the parts. Firing pin, return spring, lever, drop safety/firing pin block, springs. That little cutout at the rear of the firing pin is where a cam on the safety drum engages the pin when set to safe. Which is why you have to rotate the safety to fire in order to remove the breech block. I see no change in the firing pin from earlier ones. The breech block does have changes.



On the left is the new breech block. I have removed the new firing pin and dropped it in the second generation breech block. It fits perfectly. Looking at the breech block on the left, the QD one you can see the swag marks, the cutout for the small return spring and the wider rear channel that receives the lever.



Looking at the nose of three breech faces only the original on the left is different. It does not have the forward firing pin support that the others have. I broke a firing pin once with a pistol that had the breech block on the left. Somewhere, perhaps 2006 or so the breech block was changed to better support the nose of the firing pin.



When the safety drum is rotated toward safe the top of the safety drum cutout (slide upside down, narrow slot) presses the decocking lever forward. The other slot is for the firing pin. When the lever is rotated to fire the slot is in a vertical position and not pressing the lever forward.



In this photo you can begin to see the slanting portion of the lever begin to engage the firing pin block.



In this photo you can see where the slanting bottom face of the lever is engaging the firing pin block and pressing it down against the front sear arm. Grind some of this face off and the lever would be delayed in pressing the block down. Add material and the lever would engage the block earlier. I won't change anything here. It has been carefully timed.



For whatever it is worth, I've posted how I reprofile my trigger bar ears. Here is the slight swagging of the zinc slide after about 2,000 rounds. I don't expect it to get any worse.



And here is what dry, moly powder looks like when rubbed on wear areas of the pistol. Only a very, very thin coat can be applied. It stops all wear between the zinc rails and zinc slide grooves. At least up to 50,000 rounds which I know one pistol has through it. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Part two;



Carefully assemble the breech block, hold it top up as you slide it back into the slide. Safety levers set to fire. Easy does it and the tiny spring on top of the firing pin block will stay in place. Once installed I will make sure the part is all the way to the rear, pull the levers down to safe and carefully drive the retaining roll pin down flush being careful not to hit the slide with any tools. I will then drop in the extractor spring, the extractor and drive the retaining pin into the top of the slide from the bottom being careful not to drive it out the top of the slide. Then reassemble the pistol, press up the takedown lever, cycle the slide...load and shoot. This should be more information than anyone wants to know. Questions? 1917
 

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Nice write-up and photos. So it sounds like basically the decocker mechanism (as the safety lever is moved towards the "Safe" position) just automatically releases the hammer at the right time after the hammer block is in a safe place to prevent the hammer from hitting the firing pin.

My new P22Q does not have the hammer decocker, and after thinking about it I guess I'd rather not have it because without the decocker the gun can be put into "Safe" while the hammer is still cocked. Maybe Walther added the decocker to make it so that condition could not be achieved, thereby thinking it was a safer gun.

With the decocker mechanism, if the hammer is back and you put the gun in "Safe", the hammer will drop. At that point, if you wanted to shoot the gun you'd have to put the safety to "Fire" then either pull the hammer back manually and pull the trigger in SA, or pull the trigger in DA mode. Without the decocker, you can put the gun in "Safe" while cocked, and if you want to shoot just move the safety to "Fire" and shoot SA. Of course, without the decocker, always put the gun in "Safe" before decocking the hammer manually.

Why did Walther get rid of the decocker? Hard to say ... probably decided it adds complication and cost, and maybe people complained that they couldn't keep the gun cocked with the Safety on.
 

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Also ... I was curious on how tight that slide alligator roll pin really is to drive out and back in. Do you really have to bang like a madman to get it to move? I sent a photo of my buggered up alligator roll pin to Walther today so they could see the sloppy workmanship at the factory. Hoping they will just send me a new one that I can install someday when the time is right.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well, adding the decocking lever made the P22 function exactly like PP, PPK and PPK/S pistols have for many decades. I can take it or leave it. For some people being able to press the safety levers toward safe and have the hammer safely lowered is probably a good idea. Since it is a small pistol and a .22 mainspring isn't all that powerful I just lower the hammer by thumb, safety on or off. But on a 1911 45 you have to make absolutely sure you have a good grip on the hammer when you lower it. And the mainspring is pretty stout. Just the way it is. And, I think I got so used to the pistol with no decocker that adapting to the new system is a bit odd...but, I can't really think of any negatives. For some reason Walther apparently discontinued it. I've never read of any problems with the system so I'm not sure why they went to the trouble.

I'd rather that they had spent the money on an aluminum slide offering sight options. A five inch one at that. Like this. :eek: 1917



If I knew how to photoshop I could really make one look good.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The pin is pretty tight. The original pistols had a smooth roll pin here and they vibrated out of position which then blocked operation of the safety. I remove it with the slide off of the pistol. It is almost a two person job since the slide has a rounded shape. A gunsmith puck doesn't work any better than the side of a roll of tape for me. I place the slide on the tape making sure the levers are free but that the pin area is supported. Then I tap the pin out slowly with a small hammer. I wouldn't have a clue what to do if I had someone to help. It can be brass, plastic or steel. 1/8" drift and there are drifts made specifically for removing roll pins. These have a small tit on the end that fits inside the center of a roll pin. Just tap on it and keep increasing the amount of hit until it begins to move. Make sure your drift is properly centered before each tap.

My experience is that most of these drifts pretty quickly get damaged on the end so you need to keep an eye on the working end of your tool. You could replace it with a smooth pin if you like....any hardware or home improvement store has those. The little scuff you showed is not something I would worry about. These are not heirloom firearms. On the other hand....they have a lifetime warranty and don't rust easily. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #7


If I were to make the lever non functional I would remove some material from the front, sort of like shown above in red, so that it simply didn't engage the firing pin block. I'd leave the part and the reset spring in place. Without the part installed there might not be adequate support for the rear of the firing pin. 1917
 

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The little scuff you showed is not something I would worry about. These are not heirloom firearms. On the other hand....they have a lifetime warranty and don't rust easily. 1917
It's more than a little scuff in the end of the roll pin. The edge is actually deformed and rolled over, and that end doesn't even look flush with the roll pin hole in the slide. It's pretty ugly looking ... the ugliest roll pin factory installation I've ever seen. I used some Perma Blue paste to re-blue the shiny metal, which helps it look a little better at least.


As far as the decocker ... I kind of like that I can put the safety to the "Safe" position and keep the hammer cocked. If I want to stop shooting for a minute, but don't want to decock the hammer manually, I can just put the safety on, then resume SA shooting by putting the safety to "Fire".
 

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Discussion Starter #9
If you look at the second picture in the beginning thread you can see that due to the serrations the end of the roll pin can be a bit iffy with regard to holding up to punches. I'm sure they will send you a roll pin. I'd call em....none of this e-mail stuff. Tell them you can replace it. 1917
 

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If you look at the second picture in the beginning thread you can see that due to the serrations the end of the roll pin can be a bit iffy with regard to holding up to punches. I'm sure they will send you a roll pin. I'd call em....none of this e-mail stuff. Tell them you can replace it. 1917
Yes, I can see the iffy part on these roll pins when driving with a punch. I did call them, and they wanted a photo via email, so I sent them one. Haven't heard back yet. If it was Ruger they would have just sent me one with a simple phone call. I'll be very disappointed of Walther balks at replacing the roll pin ... it's just sloppy factory manufacturing work. Gun should never have gotten past final inspection.
 

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Discussion Starter #11


So you are saying that if your new Walther CCP arrived with this type of workmanship....you wouldn't be happy? My roll pin still looks new after I carefully tapped it back in. Perhaps management will send the picture of your roll pin to whomever is responsible for the work or missing the damage. There is the bright side as dim as it might be. 1917
 

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So you are saying that if your new Walther CCP arrived with this type of workmanship....you wouldn't be happy? My roll pin still looks new after I carefully tapped it back in. Perhaps management will send the picture of your roll pin to whomever is responsible for the work or missing the damage. There is the bright side as dim as it might be. 1917
Someone got a little wild with the die grinder going up along the outside of the chamber entrance, and missing the feed ramp along the edges.

Walther is sending me a new roll-pin, and they said they did pass this on to the factory/QA people to let them know stuff like this is leaving the factory.
 
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