Walther Forums banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My P22 is about 4 years old. It recently has lost accuracy and is not capable of hitting a paper target at 10 feet. From reading posts on the subject of accuracy loss for the P22, one of the items to check is the infamous Frame Screw.

To this end, I checked mine and found I could turn the screw with a screw driver with relative ease. (Must be loose I guessed). So I tightened it up a little. Now, the barrel won't seat so easily--actually not at all. When I loosened the screw, the barrel would again seat and I could reassemble the gun.

How tight should this frame screw really be? Obviously, I can loosen the screw, insert the barrel then re-tighten it, but what is the point of that? Isn't the barrel nut actually the critical part in fixing the barrel to the gun?

Your opinion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,831 Posts
The frame halves are held together with two small machine screws. These have nothing to do with the barrel but hold the halves together that contain the trigger assembly, hammer/sear, etc. I like to give mine a light coat of blue locktite to keep them from vibrating loose. These are accessible if you remove the polymer housing.

The barrel on the other hand is fitted through the frame boss which is part of the right side half. To secure it an outer barrel sleeve is fitted over the forward portion of the barrel. The sleeve has a small indentation on it that must be indexed with the frame before tightening. With the barrel installed through the frame and the barrel sleeve installed and properly indexed, a barrel nut is then installed on the end of the barrel. As you tighten the barrel nut it presses the sleeve against the front of the frame boss while pulling the barrel tightly against the rear of the frame boss. And yes it needs to be firmly tightened and remain firmly tight in order to properly secure the barrel.

Another thing that will throw off your shots is lead in the barrel. A leaded barrel can make your shots move 8" to 10" up, down, left, right even at 21'. Been there...done that. Hope this helps. 1917



Pictured are the two screws that hold the frame halves together. The polymer grip has been removed to expose them. Neither has anything to do with attaching the barrel but they should not be loose. Over the years a little threadlocker has proved beneficial in holding the screws tight. In fact recent pistols come with some sort of thread locking material on the threads.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for your quick reply.

I understand now that the machine screws are simply to hold the frame halves together. From reading other posts, I had the impression that it was critical that these screw were kept fairly tight. Apparently, on my gun, it is very easy to over-tighten these machine screws to cause binding that will prevent the barrel from being seated. (I really wasn't going nuts with the torque, I just wanted them snug, but it was too much). So I will just install the machine screws with just enough snugness that will allow the barrel to be taken out and then apply the blue thread lock to keep the machine screw from backing out any further.

I also see now that it is indeed the sleeve and barrel nut that has the chief responsibility for keeping the barrel tight to the gun. I think I will stop with the habit of removing the barrel from the gun frame during cleaning. I agree it is unnecessary because I only have one barrel.

I agree the culprit might be lead in the barrel, but I'll be darned if I can get anything but clean when I scrub this barrel. I had several gunsmiths give me their opinion and all agree, it's clean. The muzzle crown is unblemished and all cartridges seat without binding or any damage to the bullet nose. I have also inspected for any cracks in the frame, but I see none.

In any event, I just ordered a new barrel for this gun from Walther. I will let you know how it turns out. I like the gun, it used to shoot very accurately. Something changed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
913 Posts
Remove the dreaded lead

Take the bbl out (after disassembling the P22) and see if there two parallel engraved bands near the muzzle end. These are later production parts (2nd generation, Mark II), that are excellent. The best in the market.

Soak Hoppe's #9 in a Q-tip and apply some in the bore.

Get a .224 cal. brass/phosphate brush and pass it a couple of time through the bore.

Leading is microscopic and cannot be seen even with a bore light.

Don't expect to see any lead bits. The deterioration caused be leading is so minute that it cannot be detected.

Next: fix the .224 cal. brass or phosphate brush on a drill and make the P22 go warm, very warm.

Apply a bit more Hoppe's #9 in the bore and shoot.

Your barrel will be good for a few thousand LRs and accuracy will surprise you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,831 Posts
EyeGuy, if you are really after accuracy....I'd suggest you look at the 5" barrel. It installs the same way and does come with the clunky clamp on stabilizer which means you have to remove it in order to field strip the pistol but it is a good deal more accurate. 1917
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thank you all for your replies. I really do appreciate your time.

I intend to try the enhanced scrubbing method mentioned above on my existing bbl. I do not doubt that lead may be the culprit, yet it surprises me that this gun would be so sensitive to microscopic build up to affect accuracy to this degree. I will have another bbl in the next few days, so I can go at this one fairly aggressively now with a brush.

This is just a plinker, I have other .22 pistols that I would really rely on for more accuracy (SW Model 41, etc) yet I like the gun because it is reliable and fun. Alas, it was my first gun. However, being able to hit the broad side of a barn is important from a safety perspective.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,831 Posts
Plated ammo does not foul the barrel as easily as plain lead or waxed lead. Remington Thunderbolts are particularly bad a lead fouling from my experience. Soft lead or something. Plated rounds do a much better job of keeping the barrel clean. Crete is saying I thing that a little lead can screw things up.....but, there are times you will see long slivers of lead come out when cleaning...other times the lead will be hanging off the muzzle end of the barrel. The barrel of course is a pretty precision instrument so any amount of lead build up can cause problems and they do lead up sometimes. 1917
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
SUMMARY: FIXED.



Your advice to use a bronze wire brush on a drill in the bbl of this gun worked like a dream. I had person after person tell me that the gun would be ruined by trying this. They were wrong. Absolutely wrong. In this case, I took a gun that could not reliably hit a target at 7 feet and brought it back to one that could land 10/10 on a 12 inch target at 10 yards.


Clearly, this bbl had a microscopic coating of lead that was so smooth that it could not be observed with the naked eye. This coating destroyed the accuracy of this gun. I am very careful to clean my gun after every use, but apparently there are times when you have to get more heavy handed.


I plan to stick to MiniMags (plated round) exclusively for a while and see if this keeps the performance up. Perhaps the lead round nose rounds I had been using just caused too much build up.



Thank you so much!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
156 Posts
EyeGuy,

I sure do have to agree with you about your P22. I love mine. But mostly because it was my first .22, and I bought it on my own recommendation. (About two years ago). I read up a good bit before I made the purchase. Even visited this site a time or two. People here seem to really like their little P22.

But I never have been able to feel good about it's accuracy. I bought the 5" barrel, and even made some adjustments to how I installed the stabilizer with the longer barrel. I wanted to get as long of a distance as I could between the front and rear sights. I finally ended up with about 5.5 inches. Also, I hung a cheap laser light under the stabilizer to counteract the muzzle rise. All of that helped.

For Christmas this past year, I treated myself to the purchase of a SW Victory .22 I am here to tell you that my lovable little P22 definitely takes a back seat to the Victory in every catagory, except the weight of the gun. The Victory is not light weight. I shoot quite a bit with several other retired old geezers at the range on Thursdays. There are about 8 or 9 of us, and each of us has our own favorite .22, as well as other 9mm's, 45's etc. I consistently shoot better than any of the others with their .22s. One of the guys has an Italian pistol that he paid over $1500 for.

For a very long time, I tried to find a Colt Woodsman that I could afford. One of the other guys has a 1956 Woodsman and I loved how it fired, how it felt, and it's accuracy. But the Woodsman has not been made since about 1975 or so. Colt could not continue making it for the price that it sold for. I am so glad that I found the Victory before I found a nice Woodsman.

My P22? I have removed all the extra stuff from the gun. It now has it's original 3.4" barrel, just exactly like it came out of the box. One good thing about it is that I have finally worked through all the bugs that P22s come with new. It almost never jams or stovepipes. As most P22 owners know, you have to make a few minor adjustments to your gun to make it behave itself.

I am going to keep my Walther. Being lightweight, it will be perfect for ladies and kids who want to go shooting with me.

It's not much use to me as a concealed weapon but could be used that way, and being light works well since very seldom misfires. I know that a .22 hit to a perpetrator will probably not stop him. But several in a row will really make him think of moving the other direction. A shot to the head will cause a lot of confusion and damage when it rattles around inside the skull till it stops. My wife wants to carry it in her purse and suitcase when we travel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,831 Posts
Small, light, DA pistols are difficult to shoot consistently. When you get to where you are good with a P22....heavier, longer barrel pistols should really show off your talents. Yepper, the little fellows can run consistently and the 5" barrel is plenty accurate....but, small grip, full slide, light pistol which is easy to pull of target....you have to concentrate....and keep concentrating. :) 1917
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
156 Posts
When you get to where you are good with a P22....heavier, longer barrel pistols should really show off your talents. 1917
Well, that is true! I have gotten very good with my VICTORY, which is longer and heavier. And I have to credit it to constant learning and practice trying to make the P22 behave it self.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Thanks for your quick reply.

I understand now that the machine screws are simply to hold the frame halves together. From reading other posts, I had the impression that it was critical that these screw were kept fairly tight. Apparently, on my gun, it is very easy to over-tighten these machine screws to cause binding that will prevent the barrel from being seated. (I really wasn't going nuts with the torque, I just wanted them snug, but it was too much). So I will just install the machine screws with just enough snugness that will allow the barrel to be taken out and then apply the blue thread lock to keep the machine screw from backing out any further.

I also see now that it is indeed the sleeve and barrel nut that has the chief responsibility for keeping the barrel tight to the gun. I think I will stop with the habit of removing the barrel from the gun frame during cleaning. I agree it is unnecessary because I only have one barrel.

I agree the culprit might be lead in the barrel, but I'll be darned if I can get anything but clean when I scrub this barrel. I had several gunsmiths give me their opinion and all agree, it's clean. The muzzle crown is unblemished and all cartridges seat without binding or any damage to the bullet nose. I have also inspected for any cracks in the frame, but I see none.

In any event, I just ordered a new barrel for this gun from Walther. I will let you know how it turns out. I like the gun, it used to shoot very accurately. Something changed.
Another issue that can effect accuracy is the slides on some p22 become worn and spread slightly and can cause gun to shoot all over the place.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,831 Posts
Ummmmmm, ummmmmmm, ummmmmm....not sure I have seen that. True, the sights are mounted on the slide. The barrel securely fixed onto the frame. A potential problem will all full slide firearms. But, I have one with over 100,000 rounds on it and it is still extremely accurate. At least I call five rounds in a 5/8" group at 25M pretty accurate. I do clean the pistol and dry lube it though although the suppressor I added is really increasing blowback debris and getting the pistol dirty. A recent caliper measurement of rails and grooves still shows nothing but finish wear. But, excessive wear between slide and frame can hurt accuracy and function of any semi auto pistol...that is true. 1917
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
Ummmmmm, ummmmmmm, ummmmmm....not sure I have seen that. True, the sights are mounted on the slide. The barrel securely fixed onto the frame. A potential problem will all full slide firearms. But, I have one with over 100,000 rounds on it and it is still extremely accurate. At least I call five rounds in a 5/8" group at 25M pretty accurate. I do clean the pistol and dry lube it though although the suppressor I added is really increasing blowback debris and getting the pistol dirty. A recent caliper measurement of rails and grooves still shows nothing but finish wear. But, excessive wear between slide and frame can hurt accuracy and function of any semi auto pistol...that is true. 1917
How old is yours
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,831 Posts
My target pistol is a 2006 model.....at over 50K rounds a Member here broke my slide with his wrist of steel. Walther sent me a Q slide and it has 50K rounds on it. The frame over 100K. I've been known to sorta, kinda waste ammo experimenting with this or that. Recent group below using new red dot mounted on the slide. Only 21', 10 round group, zeroing. Zeroed on other dots then put two through the dot. I have found that if you are really going for accuracy you can't shoot your aim point out. You have to move your POA just a bit off of POI. When at the farm I might shoot an entire bucket of RGBs and a 500 round box of something else.
94848


Recent group of 10 rounds at 21' from some bags, zeroing the red dot mounted to the slide. If I remember correctly there is 0.009" of difference between the width of the frame rails and the interior width of the slide grooves. It seems the rails measure 0.011" in height and the grooves are just a bit taller.



Hahaha, here is the original slide on the 2006 frame. It has been fired, stuff hung off of it, glued onto it, holes drilled in it...ugly...but worked fine until it cracked. I routinely put my caliper on the rails/grooves, front and rear. The area likely to were the most is the very rear of the rails and very front of the bottom of the slide grooves. When the slide is fully rearward only about 1/8" of zinc to zinc remains in contact between the two parts. The round indentation at the front of the old slide was from a Rockwell hardness test...but, that was so long ago I don't remember what it was. Walther did make changes to the Q slide which has reduced cracking considerably. I also drilled a hole through an original extractor....the new ones can't be drilled with anything I have...diamond or carbide. So it is possible they toughened stuff up....I don't know. I do a lot of foolishness with these pistols but if kept clean and very lightly lubed they seem to run for quite a while. I've owned six or so. Broke a frame on one way, way back....Walther sent me a new pistol. And these all have a lifetime warranty. 1917
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,831 Posts
Older ones before 2000 the slides were softer.
Did you mean 2010? If I recall correctly the pistol was introduced in 2002, AC stamping.
Crete had one, eventually broke his frame exactly where mine broke and his has nicely rounded trigger bar ears from the factory. They soon dropped those for some reason. 1917
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
24 Posts
But the slide original slide just went about 2 months ago. Maybe 10,000 rounds thru it. I do do some rapid fire tests on it. Fire just as fast as I can get it back on target. Love to see how many cherry tomatoes I can shoot in less than 10 seconds.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top