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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,
I am new to gun ownership so I know very little. I bought a P22CA in October 2017 but just fired it for the first time Monday, July 2020 during a Basic Arms Handgun training course. I purchased Federal ammo, LR22 from the arms store where the instructors work and this ammo was recommended.
My gun started out good but soon started FTL and eject every other round In each magazine. Frustrating! The course instructors tried it and had the same problem. They said it might be the Exractor but something was definitely wrong. I got very bruised on my left hand from so much Tap and Rack. They suggested I contact Walther to have it sent to be fixed and then put it on consignment for sale and get a 9mm, eg. a Glock 19.

Can someone tell what might have caused this and what should I do. It’s a nice small gun for my small woman‘s hand and maybe I should try some different ammo.
Please advise this Newbie! Thank you
 

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Try a box of CCI Mini Mags. If they don't work the problem isn't the ammo. My P22 was a bit finicky at first, but not that much.

Did you clean and lube before taking it out? If not, there's a good chance that's the problem. A bit of oil on the barrel, recoil spring and guide rod, oil the rails well and rack the slide back and forth a few dozen times. BTW, I wouldn't dry fire it, just rack the slide.

What do you mean, "FTL?"


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I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
 

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Thank you for the reply. I have read that the CCI mini mags work well. I’ll try them next time I go to the range. I had cleaned it about a year ago and stored in the case. Didn’t do it before training. As a newbie, that was probably a mistake so I’ll make sure before next time. Hopefully the CCIs and cleaning before will fix the issue. So much to learn
 

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Thank you for the reply. I have read that the CCI mini mags work well. I’ll try them next time I go to the range. I had cleaned it about a year ago and stored in the case. Didn’t do it before training. As a newbie, that was probably a mistake so I’ll make sure before next time. Hopefully the CCIs and cleaning before will fix the issue. So much to learn
Yep, that's probably the issue. Oil evaporates over time and rather than lubricate it gets sticky, particularly CLPs (clean-lube-protect). If the firearm is used every few weeks almost any lube/CLP will be fine, but a year? It's just dried out.

If you're only going to shoot it a couple times a year, just take it apart before you go out and lube it well as mentioned earlier, plus a drop or two on the hammer, trigger and either end of the firing pin. That's assuming you cleaned it well AFTER you shot it the last time.

I've got a friend who hadn't shot her Glock 19 for six months and after about 10 rounds it started misbehaving. And that was one of them famous, perfect Glocks!


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I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
 

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Thank you again. very good advice. I will do both, try CCI mags and a good cleaning next time. If these aren’t the issue, I might have to send it to Ft Smith for examination. Just like your friend, mine started firing with no problem on first mag and then it began only firing every other round.
 

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If the oil has turned to goo, the barrel would get fouled very quickly. only use a light coating of oil on the pistol just enough so you see it. Then before you go to the range remove any oil in the barrel.
Some may disagree, but these guns need a bit of breaking in.
They are also quite picky with ammo. Higher velocity ammo such as the Mini Mags mentioned and I had good success with Remington Golden Bullets (except for one bad batch).
 

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If the oil has turned to goo, the barrel would get fouled very quickly. only use a light coating of oil on the pistol just enough so you see it. Then before you go to the range remove any oil in the barrel.
Some may disagree, but these guns need a bit of breaking in.
Agree 100%. It's tempting to use to much oil and P22s tend to need breaking in; mine did anyway.

I assumed at first the OP was shooting a new gun, but having not shot it for a year before this trip, maybe it's already broken in. After 100-200 rounds mine has functioned without a hiccup.




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I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
 

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I'll assume FTL means a round isn't fully chambering and that is likely because your chamber is dirty. This can be an issue with all .22 semi autos. Clean the chamber. A round should drop into and fall out of a clean chamber. No one I've ever heard of recommends Federal ammo. I'd suggest plated ammo and especially CCI Mini Mags or Remington Golden bullets. If you have trouble with those after making sure the chamber is clean we need to dig a little deeper. The P22 has from day one had a bit of a slide hang up issue due to the shape of the hammer face catching in the small gap between the safety drum and rear of the breech block. To resolve this the tip on the face of the hammer can be very lightly rounded a bit to remove the tip. Clean and test some other ammo and see if that doesn't resolve your issues. Welcome stormcat49. 1917



If cleaning doesn't help and it appears that the slide is catching on the hammer, see the above photo for the issue. I very lightly remove that point and only a minimal amt. See curved line. Walther revised the hammer face once to help with this but they still left a tip that can catch. Much better than the original. If the ammo you are using is too weak to cycle the slide you will have failures to extract, eject and no new round chambered. A bit more powerful ammo can cure all.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Agree 100%. It's tempting to use to much oil and P22s tend to need breaking in; mine did anyway.

I assumed at first the OP was shooting a new gun, but having not shot it for a year before this trip, maybe it's already broken in. After 100-200 rounds mine has functioned without a hiccup.




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I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
As I had said, I had never fired the gun before this past Monday, July 20. Several surgeries and other health issues have prevented me from doing so after I bought it in October 2017.
At t he Basic Training course on Monday, I don’t believe I fired even 100 rounds of the Federal ammo because of the FTL. Then I tried the instructor’s Glock 17 and another students Glock 19, and I shot really well, no problems.

I am cleaning it today and will heed your advice on oil. I don’t have any K7 moly powder (have read about it); just some Rem Oil and a spray cleaner, brass brush and toothbrush.

I am having right hip replacement surgery on July 27 so I just want to clean it good since I won’t be able to fire it again for about 6 weeks.

Again, many thanks.
 

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I'll assume FTL means a round isn't fully chambering and that is likely because your chamber is dirty. This can be an issue with all .22 semi autos. Clean the chamber. A round should drop into and fall out of a clean chamber. No one I've ever heard of recommends Federal ammo. I'd suggest plated ammo and especially CCI Mini Mags or Remington Golden bullets. If you have trouble with those after making sure the chamber is clean we need to dig a little deeper. The P22 has from day one had a bit of a slide hang up issue due to the shape of the hammer face catching in the small gap between the safety drum and rear of the breech block. To resolve this the tip on the face of the hammer can be very lightly rounded a bit to remove the tip. Clean and test some other ammo and see if that doesn't resolve your issues. Welcome stormcat49. 1917



If cleaning doesn't help and it appears that the slide is catching on the hammer, see the above photo for the issue. I very lightly remove that point and only a minimal amt. See curved line. Walther revised the hammer face once to help with this but they still left a tip that can catch. Much better than the original. If the ammo you are using is too weak to cycle the slide you will have failures to extract, eject and no new round chambered. A bit more powerful ammo can cure all.
 

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Thank you, 1917. I read a lot of your posts on this issue when I was researching it yesterday on this forum. I am definitely going to clean the chamber today and the rest of the gun. Also going to try the CCI mags and Remington Golden bullets next time. From my research, I feel the Federal ammo was a major part of the problem, besides the cleaning.
I really appreciate your assistance as well as SkippySanchez.
 

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I neglected to mention that the student next to me at training had an SR 22 and a Ruger. She was using the exact same Federal ammo I was. Both of her guns had same FTL and ejection issues!
 

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Hmmmm???. Did you both get your ammo from the range? If so they might have had some bad ammo. Any .22 ammo will work in a P22 or Ruger but some not as well as other ammo. Federal Target ammo is accurate from my experience but Federal and Winchester do not produce the same blowback energy RGBs and CCI produce. Quiet and other suppressor ammo do not provide much blowback energy either. The P22 has a fairly heavy slide compared to the Ruger SR22 and S&W compact .22. So it especially requires snappy ammo. You can't go by the velocity on the box....that is from a rifle barrel. Short barrels don't produce the same velocity/energy/blowback energy.

I'm still not 100% sure what you are describing as your problem. I'm assuming the fired round caused the case to be extracted and ejected and that the slide hung up for some reason when trying to chamber the next round. But, here again...several things can be wrong, each with perhaps a specific problem causing it. For example....did the next round dig into the bottom of the feed ramp or stand straight up (Magazine issues), did the round enter the chamber, go about 75% in and stop the slide (dirty chamber, bad ammo....most likely a dirty chamber) or did the spent case hang up the slide keeping the next round from fully seating (weak ammo or limp wristing, possibly the slide hanging up on hammer especially when the magazine was fully loaded and pressure/drag of the top round was at its highest on the bottom of the breech rail). Did cycling improve as the stack of rounds went down? Internet diagnosis has to stumble along point by point unless someone is familiar enough with it all to present all the facts of exactly what is going on. We will get it sorted.

Finally, there have been a very few instances and only recently of bad chambers. The more powerful the ammo, the worse the problem. What occurs here is that something like CCI Mini Mags expand the case when fired and blowback gases fail to extract the spent case nor will the extractor manually pull it out. A trip back to Ft Smith for a chamber re-honing has solved this problem. The pistols have a lifetime warranty. 1917
 

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I’m not sure exactly what happened. The gun fired ok for about the first two mags. Then after every other bullet wouldn’t cycle. I had to do Tap and Rack to eject the unspent bullet. It would just ‘click.’
Then after it kept happening the instructors tried it and it did the same thing. It wasn’t limp wristing because they mentioned that and watched my wrist and same thing when they tried it. Instructors seemed to think it might be the Extractor. And I shot with no problem when I tried the two Glocks.

Today I spent all afternoon cleaning the gun using You Tube videos as a guide. But it was extremely difficult to get the spring and rod to go back into the gun and get the slide to go back onto it and seat it. The woman who went to training with me had to help and it took us over two hours to reassemble it! What an awful experience that was... my fingers are raw tonight 😬 She reassembled her Ruger in little time and with no problem. Terrible design by Walther in my opinion. I won’t want to clean it as much if I have to go through this every time. At 70 with a small hand, I just don’t have the thumb and hand strength to hold the spring down very long while I have to hold it and get the slide on. I bought the P22 because of this but so far it hasn’t been a fun and enjoyable experience. So not sure I am going to keep it. I liked the Glock 19 much better.

I have right hip replacement surgery on July 27 so I am just going to leave it in the case for now since it is nice and clean. After I have some time to recover, then I might go to the range and try some CCI mini mags and RGBs to see how it does. If the problem continues at that point, I either sell it or send it to Ft Smith for exam and chamber honing as you say. Regardless, reassembling it is still an issue.

Thank you again for your patience and help.
Stormcat49
 

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Good luck on your surgery, I have a number of friends that have gone through that, some of them twice. Since you will have a lot of time on your hands (not to mention butt) look at getting a captured spring to replace that horrible spring-rod. There are a couple of brands. It makes a world of difference.
tom
 

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I think after you get the hang of it reassembly will get easier. I still wrestle with lowering the plastic slide release to get mine apart. Broken a few thumbnails to pry it down.

Although I've never shot one, nor have I taken one apart, I have handled the S&W Shield EZ and that might be an option. I've heard some really good things about that little pistol.


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I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
 

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Stormcat49, what you are describing is not a failure to load. Three common problems would be; failure to chamber for some reason, failure to extract, failure to eject. They are all different. You are describing a failure to extract and a failure to eject due to it. When a .22 blowback pistol is fired the pressure from the gas that propels the bullet also works against the spent case. Due to the heavier weight of the slide there is a slight delay in movement of the slide rearward. This is carefully designed into the pistol so that the round is long gone before the pistol begins to move. Yet, the round must have enough blowback energy to blow the spent case out of the chamber and with enough energy to fully cycle the slide. What you are describing is ammo that is simply too weak to blow the slide fully rearward. When this happens the slide/spent case moves rearward a bit, does not hit the ejector and is simply shoved back into the chamber. This can be caused by limp wristing but the P22 is sensitive to ammo that is not powerful enough to cycle the slide. You need to try a different ammo. CCI Mini Mags or Remington Golden bullets. I bet your issues will be gone. Federals and Winchester might or might not cycle the slide on a P22. Give a different ammo a try. The spent case needs to move rearward enough to bang into the ejector so it can be kicked out of the ejection port. Your ejector is fine, they don't wear out. The extractor plays no part in extracting the spent case from a fired round. That is 100% the job of the blow back gasses. The extractor is used for manually unloading the pistol and it does help with ejection pivot.

It seems to me anyone that is familiar with .22 semi auto pistols would absolutely know this.....range officer for example. The slides on the Ruger and Smith compact are lighter than the P22 slide. So if a certain ammo won't cycle the Ruger. Get another brand of ammo. Sometimes you get a bad box, some .22 ammo works fine in a rifle but not in a short barrel .22 pistol.

OK, that recoil spring is the easiest thing ever to reinstall. People have had issues with it from day one. But it is really simple. Try this. Unload the pistol, remove the mag. Place your hand over the top of the pistol. With thumb and finger rock the takedown lever back and forth slightly as you press it down. Don't try to pull it down from the bottom. When down, cock the hammer, pull the slide all the way rearward, let the rear end up to clear the frame rails and then let the recoil spring carry the slide forward and off of the barrel. The guide rod and recoil spring are now loose for removal and cleaning.

To reassemble, do this, in this order. Make sure the take down lever is still down. Cock the hammer, stand the pistol straight up on a table top or your leg. Place the guide rod in the recess provided for it, then drop the recoil spring over the guide rod. And here is where people have problems. The long spring will kink and go willy wonka unless you place a rod inside of the spring to keep it from kinking as compressed. That is the purpose of the small plastic rod that comes with the pistol. I don't use it, I use an Allen wrench, a small screwdriver, a section of .22 cleaning rod, etc. The purpose of which is to keep the spring from bending. But in order for that to work you must place the muzzle end on top of the long spring ( don't compress yet ), insert the guidance rod through the end of the slide, through the spring and rest it against the end of the guide rod. Make sure you read that last part....keep the guidance rod pressed against the guide rod. It must remain there. Next, simply pull the slide rearward. The guidance rod will make this as smooth as butter. You won't be able to complete the operation because the pistol is resting nose up on a table. So, hold the slide rearward enough that the guide rod is sticking out the nose of the slide. Set the tool aside. Pick up the pistol being careful to hold the slide rearward, recoil spring still compressed. You will now be able to pull the slide all the way rearward, hammer still cocked, press the slide down against the hammer until the grooves align with the rails and then let the slide forward. Press the takedown lever up. Job finished.



Above is a photo showing hammer cocked, a section of cleaning rod making sure the spring stays straight as I pull the slide rearward. One smooth pull down as long as "I keep the cleaning rod against then end of the guide rod". Try that, that is the Walther method for remounting the slide. Takes ten times longer to explain it vs doing it. Very little hand strength required. Compressing the spring on the guide rod is not how Walther designed this. I can do that easily too but the recommended procedure shown above works 100%.

Walther makes a very nice one piece captive recoil spring assembly now. If you want one you will have to drill out the guide rod hole slightly to 1/4". Easy. I'd call Ft Smith and tell them the problems that you are having due to operations, etc. and ask them to send me one. They might send it at no charge if you tell them you can install it. I did a thread on installing one in a P22 that has the original spring. The only thing you have to do is place a 1/4" drill bit against the guide rod hole in the muzzle cup and drill it out slightly. You will not be able to use the old system once you do this. The captive system uses the same recoil spring. But, remounting the slide is very easy if you follow the above procedure. No hand strength required.

Practice that remounting procedure and get some CCI Mini Mags or Remington Golden bullets and see if your problems go away. Test drop a round into the chamber when it is clean....one will simply drop into the chamber under gravity. 1917
 

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The reason blowback energy is so import to the function of a semi auto .22 pistol is: The spent case being propelled rearward by these gases must; move the slide rearward, compress the recoil spring, cock the hammer, overcome friction of moving these parts and still have enough rearward energy to cause the rim to hit the ejector with enough force to cause the case to bounce out of the ejection port. Quite a bit to accomplish by the spent case of a small round. All of the above is done by the spent case and blowback gases.....which is why ammo choice can be critical to proper function of a full slide .22 semi auto. 1917
 

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Good luck on your surgery, I have a number of friends that have gone through that, some of them twice. Since you will have a lot of time on your hands (not to mention butt) look at getting a captured spring to replace that horrible spring-rod. There are a couple of brands. It makes a world of difference.
tom
I appreciate your good luck wish 😊. Last year I had the left hip replaced. Osteoarthritis in both.

A little bit about me. I served on active duty for 22 years in the Regular Army - 1972-1994, retiring as a Lieutenant Colonel. I entered the Women’s Army Corps in 1972 and then in 1978 women were assimilated into the Regular Army. During the 70’s, 80’s and early 90’s, I was a trailblazer for women and as a result of opening doors for women soldiers and officer, I incurred injuries as a result of being the first or early in different position. My proudest time was when I earned my Airborne wings in 1981 at 33 years old. I was one of the first women to do so. However, I landed wrong on my 3rd training jump at Fort Benning, took the 6 month medical hold to heal my injuries, and returned to make the last two jumps and receive Wings. I have had over 11 major minor/surgeries as a result of all my injuries. Haven’t fired a weapon since the 80’s on an M16 and 9mm handgun. At 70, I want to take up shooting for self/home defense. That’s why I want a handgun that I can handle with a small hand and diminished strength.I took the Basic Arms Handgun training because I strongly believe in safety and starting with good habits.

Thank you for letting me share this.
 

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The reason blowback energy is so import to the function of a semi auto .22 pistol is: The spent case being propelled rearward by these gases must; move the slide rearward, compress the recoil spring, cock the hammer, overcome friction of moving these parts and still have enough rearward energy to cause the rim to hit the ejector with enough force to cause the case to bounce out of the ejection port. Quite a bit to accomplish by the spent case of a small round. All of the above is done by the spent case and blowback gases.....which is why ammo choice can be critical to proper function of a full slide .22 semi auto. 1917
Wow! So much to absorb. Thank you for the photo and helpful suggestions on reassembling the spring and rod. I will have to try that. I don’t feel comfortable drilling out the hole so if I get a captured spring, I’ll get a gun store or gunsmith to assist. I’m sure I’ll be reaching out for help.
Paula
 
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