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I agree with Mike; 5 gallons of speculation isn't as useful as a pint of experience. I would get a known, good brand...the devil is in the details with ARs. They all look pretty much alike, but whether it is something invisible (like MPI testing of the bolt), or more obvious, like a chrome bore or correctly staked screws on the carrier key, there are differences.
Most will only matter at a high round count, but think about it for 'one and done'.
Rifling twist is another can of worms; the Colt will likely be the current mil-standard 1:7, which will stabilize even the heaviest bullets. 1:9 is reputed to be a good compromise; the original M16s were 1:12, and designed to (barely) stabilize the 55 grainers. It's possible to shoot the lighter bullets in the faster twist, but the inverse isn't true.
A good deal of the 55 grain stuff is still out there at reasonable prices, and the heavier bullets are also to be had pretty cheaply right now. $0.40 @ used to be considered a deal, but cheaper is possible now. As we edge up to 2020, things will start getting goofy; now it the time to shop for guns and boolits.
It's not a hard round to reload, but good factory fodder is money in the bank.
A replacement trigger is well worth it; a Geissele SSA is a wonderful choice.
Happy shopping.
Moon
 

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Were the M16s 1:14 and then went to 1:12?

1:12 ran 55s in our old Steyr SL in one ragged hole at 100yds.
The 2003 No.1V with 1:12 is being tested with 40,45,50,55 and since our current Colt is 1:7 I might get some heavier bullets..... still have some 70 Sierras from years ago.
The No.1V seemed to favor the 55s over the 45 and 50s
but I just wanted to get the No.1V/T36 on center at 25yds then out to 100 this week and 300yds ASAP.

A 308 AR would be great as well...... but for 500 yard shots at food etc etc a
338 Lapua AR might be in our future. :eek:
For ......Avalanche control .... might fly with the Ladies in the Clan. :rolleyes:

We load so we don’t burn up our barrels but quality and longevity are always a consideration.
 

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If by “food” you mean a deer, the 338 Lapua would make a mess of things ;)
 

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[inexplicable double post removed]
 

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From my personal experience, ARs are like Pringles; "Bet you can't have just one!" I moved from pistols to ARs because of the potential bans and the last election. I thought I should get just one so that I can have it in case of another ban. But due to the shortages at the time, I didn't have the selection like we do now.

I ended up with a 16" barrel 5.56 upper receiver from a small, but reputable, manufacturer called Centurion Arms. The only lower receiver I could get was from Stag Arms. While my first AR is still my do-everything rifle that I've taken some classes with, I've since added about six more ARs with different configurations and have also started getting into 308/7.62/6.5 large frame ARs.

If I were forced to think of a "one and done" of ARs, it'd be a Knights Armament .308 SR-25 E2 CC with a Nightforce ATACR 1-8. It won't be as light as the 223/5.56 ARs but it'll do everything from 0-800 yards and you could even get a matching SR-15.

Chris Bartocci has a great Youtube channel and points out a lot of the proprietary features of the POF. If you're familiar with the 308 AR platform and the typical failure points, there are some features on the POF that are design compromises to fit everything in a small frame receiver:
 

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I have an Aero Atlas S-one upper on an Aero lower. My local smith built it for me, was cheaper than a lot of other options for a D.I. free float system. It is my favorite rifle, though I rarely shoot it. I'm not into rifles much.
 

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Sarge, way back in the dim mists of Stoner, there was a 1:14, but it's not apt to be encountered now. IIRC, it was an issue in arctic conditions. I can look it up in The Black Rifle if anyone needs specifics.
That barely stabilized 55 grainer had a fearsome rep for wounding; the current, heavier boolits were developed to defeat body armor/helmets.
My only gripe with ARs is a lack of good things to shoot at; punching paper really isn't all that entertaining, and plates at realistic distances will be cratered.
Which reminds me; when spring is on the meadow, got to get out and ring some steel with the PCC.
Deutsch, we're wandering. Have you made any progress in your search?

Moon
 
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My only gripe with ARs is a lack of good things to shoot at; punching paper really isn't all that entertaining, and plates at realistic distances will be cratered.
...

Moon
Well, yes and no. If you have a place to do it (I have my own ranges), punching paper CAN be entertaining if you set up 5 or 6 cardboard silhouettes at 25 yards and shoot offhand against the clock to put 2 holes in the vital zones of each one in a total of 6-10 seconds. With a timer on your belt you can run this drill by yourself.

As for shooting plates, cratering has a lot to do with how they're mounted. I hang them from coat hanger wire so they are free to swing and absorb the bullet's impact. This also deflects the ricochet downward. I'm not sure what you regard as a "reasonable distance" but at 175 yards, as long as I'm using ordinary FMJ (no green tip penetrators) 3/8" plates hold up pretty well, and you'll know when you hit them. For me at least, trying to get repeated hits on a 10" plate firing offhand at that distance is a challenge, and a lot of fun.

M
 

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Discussion Starter #32
I met up with Old Fart at Shoot Point Blank, NRH on Saturday (let him fondle the P5 Lang). We talked for a while about this AR topic. I've reached the conclusion it won't be "one and done". I'll do a 16" to 20" barrel POF or Daniel Defense in 308 (with a nice scope), and something along this line (with RDS or laser)...... https://www.gunbroker.com/item/798205766
 

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Personally I just don't understand why you all need these weapons
But having a few of my own ( Colt, Bushmaster, Daniel Defense, HK, POF Styre Aug )
When it cums to barrel length, (my girlfriend says 7.5" is perfect)
As long as bullets go forward I'm very happy.
 

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Mike, concur entirely; we have a private range at camp, with dingers hung with chains for exactly the reasons you mention. I've one 6" hardened plate at 35 yds that is a fun offhand, and has thus far survived even green tips. The other clangers are (ahem) liberated tie plates, which are great with handguns or PCCs, but crater with ARs. Then we have some dangling bowling pins too. But a local range has provision for paper targets at realistic engagement distances, and that's on my to-do list.
BTW, if anyone is wondering, the issue with cratering is potential splash back when hit with handgun ammo.



Jimbo, I've a registered 10.5 Colt 9mm, and its a favorite.


Deutsch', while I'd still like to see you with a 5.56, those sound like great choices...the 'brace' on the MPX saves the paperwork. I had one; it was nicely made, but wouldn't run 100% even after a trip to NH. Their attitude on magazines aggravated me as well ($60!!!!), and in this day and age, you need extras. Other folks seem to like them; personally, the CZ Scorpion is a better bargain.
Enjoy,
Moon
 

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Yeah, HMC is spot on - everybody needs at least one AR in 5.56, and the CZ is a lot of fun for a 9mm plinkster (shot one at the range last year). My Marlin Camp 9 fills the bill for a 9mm carbine, but I could see getting a Scorpion.
 

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Deutsch', going to be a pain in the keester, but I'd still like to know why you went with the .308?
Geo', I had a previous thread about PCCs; never had the Marlin, but did have the Ruger iteration. PCCs have a lot to recommend them, and the current 'brace' lets them have a short, handy barrel as well as a means of being steadied.
Moon
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Why .308?


Having been at my friends shooting property and hearing how each rings steel @ 500 yds, my decision was clear.


The energy figures backed up my "ears", the drops made it a no brainer.


Mid-weight projectiles, zero @ 200yds......


.223, 62gr; drop @ 500yds, 50.5", energy on target, 346 ft/lbs


.308, 168gr; drop @ 500yds, 49.1", energy on target, 1,251 ft/lbs


.308 has similar drop, and over 3 times the energy.
 

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Deutsch', your money and your call.
Personally, lighter/cheaper ammo and lesser recoil, same reasoning that the military used.
Enjoy the big banger.
Moon
 

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Yah I find that 308 in my 10.5"HK51 ( girlfriend says too long) Personally I don't think 10.5" is too long for her I think it's just too heavy. Deffently has stopping power.
If I don't hit them I'll blind them and if there next to me the concussion gets them every time with the brake I have on there. Haha Ha
 

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