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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)


This is what the pistol looked like after 2,000 rounds. What I fired was five hundred or so Federal bulk mixed 40 grs followed by one of those bucket of bullets Remington golden bullets. BTW, all the RGB's fired. I had two problems with the pistol. It fired reliably but the securely clamped on stabilizer worked forward as shown. I've always had this issue with the stabilizer...old and new models. Yes, it is clamped onto the barrel sleeve....hard. Then, with no cleaning or lubricating the chamber was beginning to get quite dirty and a few of the later rounds would not fully seat unless the rear of the slide was tapped. Continued shooting sometimes seemed to clear the chamber but in the last 200 to 300 rounds this began to show up. A simple cleaning would have solved the problem but I was busy shooting.

About the pistol. This one started life as a 3.4" 2007 model. It has 40K or 50K rounds on the original frame. Somewhere along the line a 5" barrel showed up with Q style stabilizer. Then I cleaned it, removed the O ring and let someone shoot it. The slide broke on the first shot. Then a new Q slide showed up. Put that on 12K rounds ago and found out the 5" barrel is considerably more accurate. So back to the 2007 frame and grip. I use dry, powdered moly as a lubricant and the rails and grooves are still at new pistol measurements. I'm on the third mainspring and second sear spring. The mag disconnect has been removed as has the hammer strut. Removing the strut loses the DA function but allows the trigger to reset in 3/16". With the strut in there the trigger has to move considerably forward to reset. So it is now a SA pistol with an over travel stop and pre travel stop. The bottom of the trigger is resting against the pre travel stop as pictured up top. Target shooting pistol. This is the only P22 I have with a stock hammer face and it causes no problems.



Because the stabilizer walked out a bit the end of it got plenty of lead deposits and they are hard to remove unless you thread in a proper sized, sharp drill bit from the rear and carefully turn it by hand. I polished on it with a brass brush until I got tired of that and ran out of elbow grease. Next time the drill bit will come out right away. No, I don't remember the size, larger than 1/2" as I recall.



The muzzle got a bit dirtier than usual due to being recessed but this debris was easily wiped off and the barrel was clean.



In 2K rounds of bulk the guts got pretty dirty but the dirt really brushes off easily with no oil being used. Note the stock hammer face. On the 5" pistol I've had no issues with the small tip catching the slide. Would it be smoother slightly re-profiled...yep, but I have to test a stock one once in a while. The primary hooks have been lowered 30% or more and the sear undercut and the angle of the hook changed to an almost negative engagement according to my opinion. There are no tools for this and no factory drawings of the stock pistol that you can get your hands on. Of note on the new QD, the primary hooks have been lowered 30% or more also but for I believe a different reason. (so the decocker will work) Anyway, this work gives a 2.25 lb trigger with no creep.



Since I have lost many a post I learned long ago to post it then edit to add the rest. Going back and forth between here and Imgur sometimes doesn't allow me back. It is good not to lose a thread. So where was I...oh, a captive QD recoil spring assembly showed up one day too so I drilled out the muzzle hole to 1/4" and installed it. Here it is after 2,000 rounds. That rubber thing is what is left of the O ring. It was still doing its job....but barely. A bit too much for it on a hot day and with no lube. When installing one of these just place the O ring right in the middle of the assembly before reinstalling the slide.



This is a pretty old frame insert and set of grips. 40 or 50K shots fired...I don't count anymore. There is a bit of wear on the left side plate where the hardened pin rubbed a bit on the original slide and somehow a really old ejector got in there...one from way back when I was testing this and that in an effort to benefit ejection direction. It even has indentations in it from a diamond when I was checking out parts for Rockwell hardness. Still works fine though. But what is interesting in this shot to me is the marks on the trigger bar ears. As you can see I lay the ears back to match the angle of the ramps under the slide and this shows that the face of the ears is fully engaging the ramps. This is optimal for preventing wear under the slide where the ears are hit. You can also see how little of the ear is actually engaged by the narrow ramps. Looking closely you can see that the primary hooks have been lowered to match the top of the sear even though everything is pretty dirty.



Just for comparison, above is the current look of the stock, lowered primary hooks on the QD pistols. This is better.



And while we are on it, here is how high the original hook height was in comparison to the top of the sear.



And here is one of my efforts at lowering the hook height to match the sear. I will then square up the hook face and change the angle of engagement slightly and finish the undercut the bottom of the sear nose for a clean release. If you look closely, I've already removed some material. Very easy to do...I just have to make sure I keep the material removal even on both sear arms. This pistol has two sear legs, two sear arms and two hammer hooks. While work here needs to be neat and even all of the parts allow a bit of movement which allows them to self align.



The benefit of the trigger bar ears not having a sharp front edge can be seen in the lack of swaging of the zinc ramps after approximately 12,000 cycles of this slide. There isn't any beating up of the metal at all. Too bad Walther won't take a couple of minutes and simply slant the trigger bar ears to fit better against the ramps. We've discussed this issue since day one.



And for those of you that might not know what I mean by the trigger bar ears swaging the ramps under the slide...here is a picture of the damage. And these ears had had the front edge rounded off, just not laid back to match the ramp angle.



This photo isn't from this shoot but shows what the top of the breech block and firing pin would look like if removed from the slide. To clean I usually spray Gunscrubber or similar down the firing pin channel while working the firing pin back and forth. Blow it out with compressed air. Spray it with Remington Rem Oil, work it back and forth and blow that out. The pin must be free enough for the small spring to reliably reset it and the firing pin block needs to work smoothly. The new QD has an additional lever in here and I have not taken mine apart to see how it works.

The rails on the pistol as shown above still measure to factory new specs. That moly really is a lifesaver in my opinion regarding wear between the slide grooves and frame rails. When the slide is fully rearward during cycling only about 1/8" of metal on the bottom of the rail is holding the slide in position. Meanwhile, due to the design of the pistol the hammer is pressing upward against the rear of the slide with all the lift it can generate with the wound mainspring. So, good lubrication is very important here for longevity. My calipers show no wear to the rails or grooves. Not bad for zinc.

The chamber and barrel cleaned up with no effort. The drill bit did the job on the lead in the stabilizer. A Q grip showed up in black and I put that on the pistol. So now it looks like a Q pistol....shoots straight but still has a 2007 frame insert. I do need to add the pre travel stop to the inner trigger guard though. I might add a few clean pictures of it tomorrow. Those bare lead Federals were what gummed up the works a bit. The plated ammo runs forever. If I were to shoot CCI in this pistol I bet it would go 4 or 5K rounds between cleanings. I'd put oil on the O ring for that count though. 1917



And, cleaned up, lubricated with a fresh dose of Moly...ready to go. Still has the 2007 frame insert inside. Sure isn't a looker when located next to those classic lines of yesteryear. .380 up top and beautiful .22 I got from ViperR in the center.

EDIT: Looking at the poor condition of the O ring and the problems BigBorgel reported I decided to have a look at the O ring in my suppressed QD....perhaps 300 to 500 rounds. The O ring was in poor shape......hmmmmm????? Why is that I began to wonder. The reason is the captive recoil spring assembly has a small washer on the muzzle end and that washer bangs into the center 1/2 of the O ring, cutting into it. Without the new assembly the O ring fit perfectly against the muzzle cup where is was banged dead center against the smooth take down lever. Those held up very well....but the small washer is going to cause a much shorter life. Good thing they are cheap.
 

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That's darn good for 2,000 rounds. I usually get in 400-ish rounds in one session before mine needs a good cleaning. It's probably over lubed which obviously doesn't help.

Mines all 'stock' but has been worked over thoroughly according to 'the P22 bible'. Somewhere north of 20,000 rounds the slide broke so that's been replaced. Probably has 25,000 rounds total through it.
 

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Why is the slide stop lever still on your P22? I removed mine long ago, as it never stopped the slide in the backward position and was dragging on the slide just as yours does. The O-Ring must need replacement after K rounds or so it seems, unless dry moly lubed regularly. I like the 50-50 / old/new look (top P22 pic); most distinctive despite that godawful tan finished slide. Yuck! :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Pilkguns broke my slide and Ft Smith sent me a new one the next day. All they had was tan, silver or pink. The pink one was going to someone on an Island in Greece I was told. The broken slide was a 2007 one with a lot of cycles on it. Not to mention full gallon of paint hanging off of it in an attempt to build muscles and eliminate muzzle jump. Worked too, except for the muscles and keeping the rear end of the pistol from kicking down.

I put the slide catch arm back on...it works 100% of the time when it should. Yes it drags on the last shot but I can't feel it. This is my Crete target shootin' pistol....25M only. 2.25 lb trigger. It started life as a 3.4" black pistol....then one day a 5" barrel and Q style stabilizer showed up...then I needed a new slide, a Q model this time please. Then finally one day a Q style grip showed up.....the old one had all manner of experiments carried out on it but it was still 100% when it came to function. New hammer way back, new mainspring, new captive recoil spring....so, it's a parts gun but it shoots straight.. The one that put five in a 5/8" group at 25M from a rest. I've got to put the pre travel stop back on the new grip trigger guard. There is no hammer strut in it so DA is lost but the trigger resets in 3/16". There is no wear to the frame rails.

You know the drill....oh wait, you don't have a slide...you broke all of yours and can't get another. Sell you a tan one for 500 euros.... I'm going to take the suppressor off the QD soon and try it on the 5" pistol above. Then it will shoot straight and quiet. Hope all is well in your neck of the woods. Rain, tornados and cold weather here..... 1917
 

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Looking forward to a pink, or fuchsia purple, or yellow with blue dots finish P22 slide some time in April or May this year, complete with captive spring guide, all with gold inlay in selected areas, smoked in frankincense and lightly lubed in myrrh. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I determined that the reason the O ring didn't hold up like they previously had is that the new captive recoil spring assembly has a small washer on the nose that cuts into the center of the ring. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Looking forward to a pink, or fuchsia purple, or yellow with blue dots finish P22 slide some time in April or May this year, complete with captive spring guide, all with gold inlay in selected areas, smoked in frankincense and lightly lubed in myrrh. ;)
You'd better get a Ruger or a PPQ .22 or a Smith or something. I'm not sure Umarex is going to come through. Odd that they won't even sell you one. They don't cost that much. Good luck with it. Ruger makes a couple of thin, P22 type barrels located inside of an aluminum extension tube. They are pretty light and that is what I like about the P22. My MK III bull barrel is a tiny bit more accurate (of course it had a longer barrel) but holding the dang thing up will wear your arm out pronto. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Walther/Umarex has no one to blame but themselves. I think they rightly determined that new PP pistols in .22 would be too costly to sell in high numbers. I will be interested to see if the new PPK in .380 will sell at $600. So, they designed a great looking little pistol but they failed pretty badly with some of the details. That has left a bad taste for many, many people. Yet, according to the head guy who spoke at the SHOT show a few years ago, "The P22 sells more than all of our other firearms put together."

The last QD model P22 I purchased was pretty good right out of the box. There were a few things I touched up....specifically the trigger bar ears, hammer face and washed out all of the oil and lubed it with dry moly powder. That was it. It has run 100% since. But, this is 19 years down the road and far too late. Too bad the pistol didn't come day one with mags that worked, ejection direction of spent cases that was consistent, an aluminum slide that would cycle more varieties of ammo and not crack, a steel frame. Properly tested, the little pistol should have then been good to go from day one...and, I paid $229 for the new QD. I would certainly have been glad to pay more for an aluminum slide and steel frame......the little pistols are accurate enough and with proper ammo will run better than the PPs of yesteryear. But zinc.....well, $229 is about right and with the dry moly which stops wear and a lifetime warranty....I can't complain too much.

The old steel PPs are beautiful....my P22s run better than the one I have though. It is a beauty but the mags choke on occasion when fully loaded. The 5" P22 is more accurate and will soldier on with clean ammo well past 3,000 rounds with no cleaning or lubing. I know this because I've done it several times.

Walther has no one to blame but themselves....yet the pistol sells very well and that might be the Corp. bottom line these days. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
jim, the original P22 carried the P99 external design theme. In 2010 or 11 the pistol was redesigned with PPQ themes. I forget all of the changes but the slide was made more robust where the older model had been breaking. There were other small changes such a three slots on the rail and the grip and the slide and barrel stabilizer were changed to reflect the design theme of the PPQ pistols.

The pistol from day one came with a 3.4" barrel and as an option a 5" barrel. Both pistols used the same frame, slide, grips. So the longer barrel stuck out of the end of the slide. Walther provided with the 5" barrel a weighted cover that slips over the exposed end of the barrel. This part they call a stabilizer and Walther has a long history of such devices on their target pistols.

Other than this weighted end piece that also can carry the snap in front sight blade the 5" barrel has a longer barrel sleeve and installs on the pistol in the exact same manner as the 3.4" barrel. 1917



Photo of the original P99 theme target P22.



And a picture of a Q model with PPQ design themes. Note the more rounded slide and the addition of more accessory slots on the rail. But yes, the stabilizer is the weighted part that clamps onto the forward portion of the longer 5" barrel sleeve.
 
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