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Discussion Starter #1
Good day everyone. New owner here of a very early 9mm Kurtz/380APC, PPK/S with 1968 proof marks and 1969 production date.

S/N is 136058S and as far as I can tell, it would have been made some time in January to March of 1969. I bought it as it meets C&R rules which makes it legal in California. It was complete with the original "alligator" box, manual, test-target, loaded round indicator tool and both magazines. the spare magazine was still wrapped and filled with grease and from my inspection, it appears to have likely only been fired when new for testing. It apparently sat in its box for many years prior to finding a home with me.

After it gets out of California Gun jail, in ten days, I will add it to my CCW license and use it as a back up carry peice.

I am fairly excited. I had a much later production InterArms PPK about 15 years ago but foolishly sold it and they are no longer legal in California.

I will try and attach some photos and hope they get through.

Cheers,

Bill
 

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Good day everyone. New owner here of a very early 9mm Kurtz/380APC, PPK/S with 1968 proof marks and 1969 production date.
...
Welcome to the forum.

Sorry to correct you, but there's a little mistake in your quote above:
The proof marks are from 1969, as it's also to be seen on your attached picture. It's also not possible, that proof marks have an earlier date than the production date, because according to the respective German law normaly only complete weapons are tested.

And a second hint from a German: The correct spelling is 9mm kurz (without t), kurz = short.
I hope, you are not angry about my little corrections.
 

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Greetings from eastern NC
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Good morning and thank you kindly everyone.

You are correct about the spelling GMork, much appreciated. I did not mean to imply that the proof marks could have possibly been added before this PPK/S was assembled, only they were the new type that was first used in 1968 or so according to Dieter H. Marschall's Walther Pistols Model 1 to PPX as shown on page 255. The barrel also has the Ulm Antler proof mark as well.

Even though the grips and frame are stamped made in Germany, I believe this PPK/S was assembled or part assembled in Manurhin and the given final assembly in Germany where the proof marks were also stamped. I am correct on this?

Cheers,

Bill
 

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Bill, welcome to the forum. You're right about France. Your PPK/S was pre-produced in Mulhouse by Manurhin (that's the name of the company) and then rushed to Ulm for the final works.

And a second hint from a German: The correct spelling is 9mm kurz (without t), kurz = short.


The spelling of "kurz" with a "t" on a slide simply hurz, um, hurts our eyes. :rolleyes:
 

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According to my German edition of Marschall's book all PPK/S from 1968 to 1985 are produced by Manurhin, SN 134 941 to 269 008. Your PPK/S belongs to this number range. Nevertheless all these pistols have the labeling Walther/Ulm.
 

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Bill, welcome to the forum. You're right about France. Your PPK/S was pre-produced in Mulhouse by Manurhin (that's the name of the company) and then rushed to Ulm for the final works.

And a second hint from a German: The correct spelling is 9mm kurz (without t), kurz = short.


The spelling of "kurz" with a "t" on a slide simply hurz, um, hurts our eyes. <img src="http://www.waltherforums.com/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0" alt="" title="Roll Eyes (Sarcastic)" class="inlineimg" />
Your picture is a fake made by a picture program, isn't it?
At least such mistake could not happen in Ulm/Germany.
For a German engineer or worker such mistake is impossible because you learn already in the primary school, that tz is forbidden after r, that means, only ..rz... is correct. Only in German family names you can find seldomly ...rtz... .
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thank you again everyone.

If production did not skip any numbers, which I am assuming they did not, I believe this is the 1,117th 9mm/380APC PPK/S completed sequentially by the serial number.

There was a small piece of paper inside the manual with a pencilled in note that says "Purchased by father at PX in Feb. 69"

I am assuming it might have been gifted to a family member at some point and was originally sold on a military base. "PX" is probably post exchange.

If it was sold in February of 1969, it would have had to have been built sometime between January 1st 1969 and no later than February 28th of the same year.

Does anyone know a better way of dating an early PPK/S?

Cheers,

Bill
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Another interesting thing is the original brown "alligator" box label in both places says "PPK" with an "S" hand drawn in.

I am assuming they had left-over or had not yet made a label for "PPK/S."

The stamped info on the left side of the receiver does say just "KURZ" and not "KURTZ."

My local FFL dealer asked if I wanted to sell it when it arrived. These are really hard to get in California these days.

Cheers,

Bill
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Wow... just wow! I just got back from my local range. I was able to get in training testing session with my CCW instructor to add this PPK/S to my California CCW license.

Its been at least 15 years since I last fired and regrettably sold my first PPK. It was like meeting and old friend all over again.

I was also able to get a really good look at the gun and it has 100% of its original bluing and not a nick or a scratch anywhere. I cleaned the shipping oil off the spare magazine and opened up the side grips. Inside there was a light coating of oil but not a bit of dirt. Feed ramp and barrel are mirror clean and I really can't imagine that other than the test paper rounds, the gun was ever fired.

The instructor had about 20 students going for their initial CCWs and he stopped the class to show them what a real gun looks like. Everyone there had some sort of polymer modern Glock variation or a S&W MP9 Shield, which is also my regular carry gun with a red-dot sight.

The instructor was shocked, he had not seen a real California legal PPK/S in many years since they were banned.

I qualified easily and then put a total of 200 rounds through the gun using Fiocchi FMJ target rounds. Not a single jam or hang up of any kind.

The gun was just magnificent and even at 30 feet, I was getting ten for ten in the red with easy consistency. I will attach photos of a coupe of the targets I shot. I can get a bit more accuracy with the red-dot on my MP9 Shield, but the PPK is far more fun and rewarding with iron sights.

I am most certainly going to be using this as a back-up CCW weapon and can easily see using it as a primary carry when I am in nice clothes or when I have to wear a suit or blazer.

I will be moving any future chat on this PPK/S over to the regular section and hope all enjoy.

Cheers and a Happy Thanksgiving to all,

Bill
 

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If production did not skip any numbers, which I am assuming they did not, I believe this is the 1,117th 9mm/380APC PPK/S completed sequentially by the serial number.
They probably didn't skip numbers intentionally but because of the fact that the PPK and PPK/S models share the S/N range a simple analysis by calculating isn't possible.
 
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