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Discussion Starter #1
I recently purchased a Walther KKM rifle through GunBroker. I finally made it out to the range today, and have some general observations as well as a question on the firing pin.

First of all, it is definitely a KKM, serial number 0162xx, and it was made in 1957 according to Walther. If you look at the 1964 Walther small bore manual, it resembles the second rifle down on page 1. However, the trigger is different - there is a screw going up through the trigger blade at about a 60 degree angle that appears to set the sear release, as in the link below for rifle 16478:

https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1012009&highlight=walther+kkm+trigger+photos

Turning the screw clockwise increases the length of trigger travel from the point where the trigger reaches full pull weight, until the sear releases. Currently, the first stage is set to about 5 ounces, and the sear releases at about 9-11 ounces with just a hair of creep. (I set it that way because my trigger finger is apt to squeeze a little harder than I want it to on occasion.)

Now for the good and bad about the range trip.

Good:
It is definitely an accurate shooter. I mounted a Nikon 4-12x rimfire scope, put it on a front bag rest and supported the back end with my fist. Not perfect, but good enough for a warm fuzzy. The best 5 shot group I came up with was Wolf Match target ammo, at 0.628 MOA. (I didn't shoot a whole lot of groups because of the extractor/firing pin - see below)

Bad:
1. The Walther rear sight that came with it looks pretty sloppy. I tried to shoot it at 50 yards, and it was all over the place. There was over 2 inches of spread in 5 shots at 50 yards, which is well outside what I can shoot with my Russian Vostok rifle (I regularly shoot groups of about 1 - 1.25 inches at 50 yards with 10 shots in rimfire league, using iron sights). This is no big deal - I have a set of old Anschutz sights I bought a while back, that I mounted when I got home today. I'll try them out next week...
2. The rifle was a real bastard to get the bolt to close. Every time I did, I wondered if the extractor was going to break. A closer look showed that the extractor itself wasn't retracting far enough to easily slip over the lip of the chambered round.

When I got home, I disassembled the bolt to see what was going on, and discovered that the back of the extractor, that is supposed to fit into a slot in the firing pin when the bolt is cocked, was actually contacting the firing pin about 1/4 inch behind the slot. Turns out that

1. the firing pin in my rifle has the same measurements (35.8mm) as the firing pin fromrifle 61xxx in the link above, but
2. the shape of the firing pin, and placement of the extractor slot, matches the firing pin from rifle 16478.

This makes me wonder if the extractor itself is incorrect for this model.

Anyway, after a careful perusal to acquaint myself with the correct operation of the bolt, I determined that I should be able to hog the firing pin slot out far enough for the back of the extractor to fit into it. I gulped, said a little prayer, grabbed my handy Dremel, and went at it until the extractor would fit into the slot. Now, cocking the bolt takes the same amount of force when chambering a round as when I close it on an empty chamber, the extractor correctly extracts a round when opening the bolt, and there doesn't seem to be any ill effects on functioning when dry-firing - the firing pin is released and makes a dent in the lip of the round in the chamber as expected. Yay! Of course, the acid test will be next week when I return to the range...

My question is, has anyone seen this before? Is this something I should have known to check on? And is there anything else I should know about this beast going forward?

Any and all advice is welcome...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Are you sure about that?

You would alter the extractor by removing just over 1/4 inch from the rear? What about the change in geometry that would make in the extractor itself? Not to mention that if that section was removed, what was left might not have been enough to keep tension on the extractor during normal operation of the bolt. I guess you could always try bending the extractor to make it fit, but in my 35 years of experience operating and repairing auto-tracking radars, spring steel doesn't like being radically remodeled.

As I stated, the firing pin in this rifle does not exactly match either of the two in the link I posted. The 35.8 mm dimension matches the pin from the newer KKM, but the size of the slot in the pin appears to be the same as the older KKM. Either the extractor or firing pin, or both, are not OEM parts, because it would never have been allowed to leave the factory in this condition.

In any event, I couldn't leave it as was. Sooner or later the extractor would have given up the ghost, and I like my chances of finding an extractor less than I do my chances of having a machinist buddy make a copy of the firing pin on the 5 hp mill in his garage/workshop.

Anyway, thanks, but no thanks. I'll leave extractor surgery to you...
 

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An extractor is relatively simple and easy to make. What would you have done if your Dremel work had buggered up the bolt?

M
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Read this and see what you think

When the slot in the firing pin is not aligned with the rear of the extractor, the hook at the front of the extractor is under unexpected pressure and will only slip over the lip of the cartridge if extreme force is applied to the bolt handle to cock it. Every time this is performed, there is a real risk of snapping the extractor.

Since I didn't act on any part of the bolt other than the firing pin, which is itself a piece of stamped metal, and since the bolt was effectively "buggered up" already, there was little to lose and everything to gain by modifying the pin so that the geometry of the extractor would align the rear with the slot in the pin.

Here is some additional information I found or measured today, that might go further in explaining why I believe I took the right action:

I've taken pictures of my firing pin on top of a photo of a firing pin on sale at eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Walther-KKM-Match-Firing-Pin-/254275594655

I used this photo because it is the only one I can find that has a ruler to show the scale of the various aspects of the firing pin. My firing pin is on top, and it also has a ruler so that you can see the difference in scale between the two components.

my pin vs eBay pin.jpg

If you look closely at the eBay pin, you will see that the slot in the pin is approximately 10 mm in length. It could be a little longer or shorter, but 10mm is pretty close to the correct length. It is hard to tell with my pin, but when I finished with the Dremel, the actual usable length of the slot is now approximately 10-11 mm.

I have also included a closeup where I marked the end of the original slot on my firing pin in green marker. As you can see, the original length was approximately 8 mm. The ruler is on the centimeters scale, and the two numbers in this photo are 8 (on the left) and 9 (on the right).

my firing pin slot closeup.jpg

That is why the extractor was not fitting in the slot - the slot was too short.

I see 3 possibilities:
1. The firing pin is an OEM pin that was not machined correctly (I wouldn't believe this normally, but it certainly seems more and more possible)
2. It is a later model pin with different measurements (except I can't seem to find a pin with a slot of this length so far - see below. Still could be the answer, though...)
3. It is an aftermarket pin that was made to the wrong design (but on closer inspection the stippling pattern seems to match the OEM pins pretty damn close. Maybe someone out there was to make and sell them as OEM parts for more money?)

I then took my handy-dandy calipers and did a quick and dirty extrapolation of the slot length of the two firing pins in the photo I linked to originally. Obviously there's some guesswork there, but they both appear to have a length of around 10-11 mm. Neither of them are close to 8 mm.

Based on all this, my actions resulted in my firing pin slot having the same approximate length as the only measurable firing pin slot I can locate on the net, as well as being very close to the same extrapolated length of the other two firing pins I can find in photos.

So, I think that what I did was correct. I may not have had all the facts in hand before I went in and changed it, but the end result is correct.

Sorry about being so long-winded, but since I'm retired I have all kinds of time to spend on things, as well as a burning desire to prove I'm right (that's not from retirement - my parents and siblings can tell you I was born that way). Of course, I'm only right if my wife agrees with me... ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #7
That's all you have to say on my post?

I tried to show the reasoning behind my actions, and you basically blew me off. That, after an exceptionally patronizing post telling me to "never do that to another rifle" without any analysis of the actions I took.

I joined this forum in order to gain knowledge from those who have been working with Walther rifles much longer than I have. Instead, I get an angry post from someone who presumes to be the arbiter of what is correct. When I tried to explain why I took the steps that I did, and present further evidence why it was probably correct, you decided that it was safer to ignore it completely and instead make a snarky post.

OK, good enough. I'm done. As far as I'm concerned, if you are representative of the people on this forum, I see no reason to continue with any discussion here.

You win - for what it's worth...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

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tortoise1956,

the pictures of the Walther bolts and firing pins were posted by me on RFC and Ebay. I found Walther bolts, triggers, and firing pins to be a mess! There are different bolt bodies, at least five different firing pins, and several different triggers and extractors. None are interchangeable and there is no reliable information available, even Earl Sheehan will want a scan of customers firing pins if they need a replacement.

Even the safeties of the rimfire rifles are different, there are two distinctly different versions!

 
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