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If you want to gain some insight into your reaction and accuracy when confronted by an attacker find a location that offers a training simulator with numerous scenarios of attacks by "armed" assailants. I have done this twice at my lgs and it is eye opening. Luckily I died only a few times!
 

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If you want to gain some insight into your reaction and accuracy when confronted by an attacker find a location that offers a training simulator with numerous scenarios of attacks by "armed" assailants. I have done this twice at my lgs and it is eye opening. Luckily I died only a few times!
Glad you are still alive, but yeah, I'd guess most of us would not do as well as we think we would in those drills.

To his credit, Mas Ayoob talked about the importance of those kind of drills probably twenty years ago.
 

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I personally am also looking forward to HK's micro gun being released.

HK makes quality stuff and it will interesting to see what they bring to this niche.

I'm not crazy about HK's DA/SA implementation on their USPs and later guns but there is no doubt they build high quality and reliable stuff.
 

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Gentlemen, I don't know whether to jump into his one or not :oops: ! Y'all seem to be getting pretty fired up. LOL!
Attached is, what I find to be, interesting reading. IMO, the article indirectly addresses what is being "discussed" here today, I.e. "How many do you need". I agree in carrying what you're comfortable with. I also agree with @Mig1 and @DeutschlandUberAlles regarding accuracy under stress in that accuracy is incontrovertibly negatively affected by stress. Given that, as MIg1 stated, if you never miss a shot then right on. You may not need as many rounds available as someone who on a calm, quiet day with no ripples in his pond hits 1 out of two at 7 yards... if they're lucky. Not slurring that fellow, just some folks are a better shot than others for whatever the reason. That's just the way it is. Better to know that before you get in a gunfight with limited ammunition at your disposal. Clint Eastwood summed that one up in Magnum Force when he said "a man's got to know his limitations." The article uses what I think can be qualified as empirical data with the point being per attacker, you statistically will need more than one shot to effectively neutralize the threat regardless of caliber. If Mig1's stats are accurate, and I have no reason to think otherwise or dispute them, then his math would also be correct. IMO, it's certainly better to be prepared by capacity or an extra magazine than to be left...wanting.
Agree.

Just remember what Archilochus stated — 'We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training.'

Training builds muscle memory and allows for the subconscious mind to help "fill in the gaps" during stressful situations.
Agree, nobody is 100%, but those who regularly train at longer distances have a MUCH greater chance of success while under stress than those who don't train those shots.
The earliest vids from the Texas church shooting showed the perps hoodie "poof" out when the good guy took his shot.
These vids were quickly removed from the internet because it was clear his head exploded like a watermelon getting hit by a 44 mag hollow point.
I would rather train for it and never need it, then need it and have never trained for it.

Don't get me started on those who spend years never firing a round. Or never training with multi target stress drills. This is just setting yourself up for failure.
Seen several (men and women) who EDC with manual safety handguns try some multi target stress drills, some present the firearm and attempt to shoot on safe. 🤪
Train like your life depends on it.
 
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What I wrote in my last post also applies in principle to a self-defense situation against human attacks, e.g. in my hunting ground, in my house or on my property.
Well, here in the US, public places enter into the metric.
Imagine the Lubys Texas shooting with three or more perps.
You still think 10 rds would handle it.🤔
Or better yet (being in Germany) are you OK with "riding it out" until the authorities arrive on scene, stage, co-ordinate, negotiate and get approval from their higher ups before entering? 🤔
 

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Walther need not respond with a Sub Compact if it is not at least as small as the P365 and no larger than the new Kimber R7 Mako. Otherwise, why bother?

PPQ Compact grip is way to short and fat.

HK's offering is still not out yet, but looks pretty much like the Kimber R7 Mako - it best be 10-12 rounds capacity or it will be a fail also.

301138



301139
No paddle? Shame on you, HK. Shame.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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These vids were quickly removed from the internet because it was clear his head exploded like a watermelon getting hit by a 44 mag hollow point.
I would rather train for it and never need it, then need it and have never trained for it.
Not to quibble but I believe it was a .357Sig round that took him out ;)
 

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Well, here in the US, public places enter into the metric.
Imagine the Lubys Texas shooting with three or more perps.
You still think 10 rds would handle it.🤔
Or better yet (being in Germany) are you OK with "riding it out" until the authorities arrive on scene, stage, co-ordinate, negotiate and get approval from their higher ups before entering? 🤔
I would never have said it out of courtesy and respect to you as an American, but if you mention incidents like the one in Texas, I have to say that in Europe (not only in Germany) there is the impression that such incidents in the USA are more common than in Europe. I don't mean Islamist attacks, but those by locals. Again: that is the impression on the other side of the pond. I definitely do not want to discuss whether there are actually causes for this, because such a discussion is rightly undesirable and forbidden here in this forum as a political discussion.
Let us end in friendship by saying that there are cultural differences between Europe and the United States in terms of handguns and how they are deployed and used. That is simply a factual statement and no evaluation whatsoever. (Maybe this has something to do with the number of cartridges in a magazine as well ;) )
However, I will continue to express my personal opinion on certain handguns in the future.
But in this thread everything is said from my side with this post.
 

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I agree.
What constitutes "sufficient" ammo for an EDC sidearm varies by geographic location.👍
 

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Got an email from WF a short time ago, listing "trending" threads on this forum.
Some of the so called "trending" threads in that email have had under a dozen posted comments in the last several days.

Seems to me like this thread is trending. 🤔

Am I missing something here?

This reminds my of how YouTube removes view counts and 👍s of vids with content "they" disapprove of. 🤔
 

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P99QA Gen 1 (sold), PDP compact 4", PPS, Q5 Match, P22, and a few from lesser brands as well.
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Found this bit of interesting info over at the German/English language Walther site regarding the PPS M2....

"In future the PPS M2 will be available worldwide only as a 9 mm x 19 Police Set with three different magazines: for 6, 7 and 8 rounds... Previous PPS models can no longer be supplied..."

So it appears that Walther is in the process of discontinuing the PPS M2 for all but the LE version (likely to keep filling contracts) overseas. As for the US website, they have removed some of the variants for the "options" section, including the RMSc version which was the only optics ready/installed version from the factory. While the US website still lists a couple different options, my understanding is that they are still made in Germany, so if they are being discontinued overseas, then I imagine that will follow shortly in the US too. Especially with the line above that mentions that the LE version will be the only one available "worldwide".

To me, this sounds like they may be getting ready to replace it with a newer option, likely sooner rather than later.
 

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Found this bit of interesting info over at the German/English language Walther site regarding the PPS M2....

"In future the PPS M2 will be available worldwide only as a 9 mm x 19 Police Set with three different magazines: for 6, 7 and 8 rounds... Previous PPS models can no longer be supplied..."

So it appears that Walther is in the process of discontinuing the PPS M2 for all but the LE version (likely to keep filling contracts) overseas. As for the US website, they have removed some of the variants for the "options" section, including the RMSc version which was the only optics ready/installed version from the factory. While the US website still lists a couple different options, my understanding is that they are still made in Germany, so if they are being discontinued overseas, then I imagine that will follow shortly in the US too. Especially with the line above that mentions that the LE version will be the only one available "worldwide".

To me, this sounds like they may be getting ready to replace it with a newer option, likely sooner rather than later.
Interesting.

I like my PPS but would welcome something new.
 

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I like my PPS but would welcome something new.
Same here. I really like mine and I keep considering sending mine out to be milled for a red dot, but the rumors about something new keep me from doing that. Don't want to spend the $150 and be without it for a month only to have a new option released that I would buy immediately anyway.

From a "fanboy" perspective, I really hope they do release one sooner rather than later. They need to get some of that market share back, and an excellent subcompact option to match the excellent PDP options would help them do that. The increased sales from both new pistols would make sure to keep the company well into the black for a while, thus keeping all of us comfortable knowing our products will be supported for years to come.
 
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Same here. I really like mine and I keep considering sending mine out to be milled for a red dot, but the rumors about something new keep me from doing that. Don't want to spend the $150 and be without it for a month only to have a new option released that I would buy immediately anyway.

From a "fanboy" perspective, I really hope they do release one sooner rather than later. They need to get some of that market share back, and an excellent subcompact option to match the excellent PDP options would help them do that. The increased sales from both new pistols would make sure to keep the company well into the black for a while, thus keeping all of us comfortable knowing our products will be supported for years to come.
Agreed.

Walther has a lot of carry guns in it's portfolio, especially if you include the Umarex offerings like the CCPs and PK380s.

Between the Umarex guns and the PPS, PPKs and until recently the P99c and PPQsc, they produce a lot of carry guns.

The time seems right to streamline the portfolio and produce an industry leading small carry pistol.

I hope they pull it off and do it soon.
 

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I have wanted the PPS M2 LE model for some time now simply for it's single stack, slim profile, and concealability factor. Sounds like I better get one before they're all gone or become too difficult to obtain.
 

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He who laughs last... hopefully these late entries will surprise us. I anticipate the HK and Walther version Of the P365, will work, we will not be the beta tester, they will have uncanny accuracy, boring reliability and no stupid striker “drag” or oops the gun just went off.
 

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He who laughs last... hopefully these late entries will surprise us. I anticipate the HK and Walther version Of the P365, will work, we will not be the beta tester, they will have uncanny accuracy, boring reliability and no stupid striker “drag” or oops the gun just went off.
I agree with this. I'm looking forward to HK's offering almost as much as Walthers.

Some HK handguns I enjoy shooting more than others but the build quality, accuracy and reliability is undeniably top tier.

Both HK and Walther have done a great job with ergonomics and I expect that to carry into their new offerings.
 
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