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Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone,
I have been researching a gun my father just gave to me, and stumbled onto this site. He bought it over 40 years ago from someone whose dad brought it back from the war. It is a Walther PP, manufactured in 1940 in Zella-Mehlis (from info here) The serial number is 182681 P, and is stamped on the right side behind the trigger guard, but not on the barrel. It has the eagle N stamped on the slide opening and below and on the end of the barrel. The two marks I can not find on any research sites are: Stamped R345 on the left side housing behind the trigger, and a small stamp on the right side above the serial number that is a small circle enclosing what looks to be either a crown (or a circus tent!)with the letters BP under the crown. Help would be appreciated, I would like to know what I have in order to treat it properly, as it might need some work beyond cleaning. Tried to upload some pictures, but the site kept dropping me. Perhaps later. Thank you.
 

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Wow, that is a nice example.


I expect some members will post with details about the markings.
 

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Thank you both for your response. Can you tell me anything about what a Hungarian proof mark would mean? Does that make it a commercial gun? I am most concerned with whether this gun qualifies as a curio/relic, as I live in a state with many restrictions enacted long after my dad bought the gun. Would like to take it in to a gunsmith as it sometimes fails mid magazine to cycle a new round. After reading a few different pages here, it seems that I need to look at the magazine spring/cleanliness, but I also noticed it was missing the small spring which should be sitting in the ejector and have ordered one of those. I would feel more comfortable having someone who knows what they are doing look it over and give it a good cleaning. Meanwhile, thank you for your time and expertise.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Also, as a first timer here, was it an error to post the picture of the entire serial number on an internet post? I notice that some people have blocked them out partially. If so, can anyone tell me what someone could do with it?
 

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Does that make it a commercial gun? I am most concerned with whether this gun qualifies as a curio/relic, as I live in a state with many restrictions enacted long after my dad bought the gun.
The Walther PP in 7.65mm, aka .32ACP, has a magazine capacity of 8 rounds.
The most restrictive state I can think of is New York, that allows ten round magazines but until 2013 loading more than 7 rounds into one was illegal unless you were at a shooting range.

And I wouldn't worry about the serial numbers.
 

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Also, as a first timer here, was it an error to post the picture of the entire serial number on an internet post? I notice that some people have blocked them out partially. If so, can anyone tell me what someone could do with it?

No worries with the S/N#, I could never understand those who feel a need to hide the S/N on a firearm obtained in a legal manner.
 
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This gun is C&R eligible due to being more than 50 years old. The various marks have zero bearing on eligibility for a C&R transfer, regardless of any other state restrictions.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Ahh, you would think with less than 10 rounds I would be safe, but I live in California. Apparently they have a thing called "The Approved (based on... a drop test?) List". This gun is not on that approved list and therefore may neither be sold, borrowed etc. if I am reading it right. I knew nothing about this list prior to getting the gun. So I am concerned about taking it in for service. If having it qualify as a relic makes the list immaterial, I would not be as concerned. Maybe what I will do is call a gunsmith here to get state particular feedback.
Anyway, thank you all very much for your answers to my questions. The history of pieces like this is really interesting to me, and I am having fun looking into it. As it is the first gun my father has given to me, I would like to get it into good shape and take care of it. And it is really fun to shoot!
 

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You said your father gave you this gun and he bought it 40 years ago from somebody. The approved for sale in Cali list only applies to sales after Jan of 2001, AND it doesn't apply to private transfers, AND "ALL Walther pistols, mfd. at Zella-Mehlis (Thur) prior to 1946, all models, all cal.’s." are exempt by way of being C and R's.

You have got nothing to worry about!

https://www.oag.ca.gov/firearms/certguns

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/undefined/curios-and-relics-list-2018/download

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is advice is given as my own private opinion, based on information put on the internet by various Fed and Cali gov organizations. What you do with this is up to you and your own problem.
 

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I am fairly certain that you can get your gun worked on, both inside and outside CA, regardless of the state’s approved list. You are correct that CA has a list that may exclude aspects of buy-sell for some guns, but your ownership (as described) is not “illegal”.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Thank you very much. And Hooray! I thought I had to show that it was a military used gun to qualify for the C&R. Still fun knowing more about it, but better if I take it in for service. It's great that boards such as this one exist, I could have spent many more hours in futile search for this info, and the knowledge base helps to keep guns and people safer. I would never have thought to check the magazine spring, for one. Thank you all for your help.
 

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Proofing a gun is/was normal in Germany. Perhaps Hungary didn't accept the German proof (f.e. if it was a Hungarian service gun => inventory number).
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Proofing a gun is/was normal in Germany. Perhaps Hungary didn't accept the German proof (f.e. if it was a Hungarian service gun => inventory number).
Martin, you sent me back to school with your post, to research what Hungary was up to in WW2. If I understand you correctly, I am to extrapolate from the clues that my gun was manufactured by Walther in Germany in 1940, proof stamped in Germany, purchased (by some branch of armed service perhaps) in Hungary, proofed again in Hungary and issued with an inventory number. Correct? Can I assume that because of the inventory number it was military use, or would anyone else have used inventory stamping? Do you know of a source regarding types of inventory stamping to determine which branch etc? If I get some time, I might try to look into it further.
Thank you very much for the added information. Each piece feels a bit like some of the genealogy research I have done, and paints a picture of history.
Cheers!
J
 

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Correct. :)


Can I assume that because of the inventory number it was military use, or would anyone else have used inventory stamping? Do you know of a source regarding types of inventory stamping to determine which branch etc?
Could be military, police, factory security etc.pp. No way determine as far as I know.
 
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