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Discussion Starter #1
Continuation of my first post in the "welcome" thread...

I'm new to firearms, having shot once with a friend a few years ago and once more last summer through a self defense class. I found it fun both times, and in the months since, I've been slowly mulling my options.

I'm unashamed of my james bond fan-dom. Seen all the films thanks to my dad (who has seen them all in the theater, including Dr No from many moons ago), loved them. Typical to form, a part of me wants to carry a PPK and be a spy. :eek:

In recent months I've been casually perusing various Walther options. Do I get the PPK I always wanted? What about that new PPQ? Everyone seems to be raving about that thing. Wait, it's also available in .22 which makes it cheaper to play with on the range (my likely only choice of shooting at least in the near future)... wait there's a PPK(/s) in a .22? .... .... (nevermind that there seems to have been for apparently many years... did I forget to mention that I really do NOT know much about firearms? ha!)

In the past few months of searching, I've learned that the PPK, while famous, has had it's, shall we say... "varied history." Folks lambasting the original interarms variants, then years later they are "better than umarex," etc etc. Still others absolutely loving it. (maybe it boils down to the common case of (mis)managing expectations?)

Realistically, I'm only likely to purchase one firearm. I'm not terribly interested in it for self defense purposes, but rather for fun-- to play with on the range, to show off, and let others in their curiosity shoot as well. Eventually maybe teach the kids how to shoot with it. And way eventually, if I ever have land outside the city, maybe get a suppressor to enjoy all the more. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, I'll ever have a second firearm. But not likely anytime soon. SOOOO-- do I go with "the gun I've always wanted since I was a wee lad" or with something more recent that gets a boatload of great reviews? If I get a PPQ (9mm or .22lr), will a piece of me regret that I didn't get that "one gun" that I always come back to (ppk)?

While trying to make my decision, I have tried to piece together the puzzle of the PPK(/s) family, to help me decide. Reading and watching reviews, of course, but then trying to figure out which model(s) were produced where, which were generally regarded as good or bad, etc. And now coming to find out that the "originals," even if I did want to save up and spend way too much on, people seem to regard as something to be displayed rather than fired.. due to age of the pistol. That's just utterly disappointing! (but completely understandable)

I'm having trouble, however, because while people have extreme opinions about various models of PPK and PPKs, I haven't found a definitive set of identifiers to tell them apart. Serial numbers, perhaps. But there is also apparently different styling, markings, coloration, etc that are much easier tells of lineage than trying to decipher a serial number. However I have yet to find a place that seems to pull it all together from an _objective_ point of view (e.g. photos organized by models, years and locations of manufacturer, etc).

Then I read that "new" (old design) "all metal" PPK's are going to come back out, which seems to mean that people are really excited about this over the zinc alloy and other metals used in recent years. Seems this has been advertised for a while now with little progress, but then in the past week I've seen (here) that apparently all-metal is really coming back! Yay! I think??? Some here seem excited.. Some seem pessimistic (e.g. is this new design going to make the umarex versions something to be sought after, "instead of that new junk?").

And here I am, an absolute n00b, who just wants to feel like a kid again (now that I'm old enough to have disposable income!), playing spy-vs-spy at the range...

So, here's where I'm at.
  • Yes, the PPQ interests me. A lot. And a .22lr option makes it even more affordable.
  • But, I'm not ashamed to admit that the PPK just tugs at my childhood heart (and of course to show my dad "my new toy").
  • I feel a PPQ, while exciting and fun, will leave me wanting.
  • But, from what I've been reading, "old PPK's are for show, not for fun, and new PPK's are just junk."
  • There's some new "all steel" version coming out, but it's brand new, so will it be "junk" also?

Well, there it is. Heart-on-shoulder style. Of course I'm hoping to be reassured that a PPK is a good choice, and that the new ones are "worth waiting for." But, I also am willing to listen to hard truths if I need to just get a PPQ for fun and wait (and save up) for the day when I can afford an old PPK "show piece."

What's a kid (at heart) to do?

cheers,
..dane
 

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Continuation of my first post in the "welcome" thread...

I'm new to firearms, having shot once with a friend a few years ago and once more last summer through a self defense class. I found it fun both times, and in the months since, I've been slowly mulling my options.

I'm unashamed of my james bond fan-dom. Seen all the films thanks to my dad (who has seen them all in the theater, including Dr No from many moons ago), loved them. Typical to form, a part of me wants to carry a PPK and be a spy. :eek:

In recent months I've been casually perusing various Walther options. Do I get the PPK I always wanted? What about that new PPQ? Everyone seems to be raving about that thing. Wait, it's also available in .22 which makes it cheaper to play with on the range (my likely only choice of shooting at least in the near future)... wait there's a PPK(/s) in a .22? .... .... (nevermind that there seems to have been for apparently many years... did I forget to mention that I really do NOT know much about firearms? ha!)

In the past few months of searching, I've learned that the PPK, while famous, has had it's, shall we say... "varied history." Folks lambasting the original interarms variants, then years later they are "better than umarex," etc etc. Still others absolutely loving it. (maybe it boils down to the common case of (mis)managing expectations?)

Realistically, I'm only likely to purchase one firearm. I'm not terribly interested in it for self defense purposes, but rather for fun-- to play with on the range, to show off, and let others in their curiosity shoot as well. Eventually maybe teach the kids how to shoot with it. And way eventually, if I ever have land outside the city, maybe get a suppressor to enjoy all the more. Maybe, JUST MAYBE, I'll ever have a second firearm. But not likely anytime soon. SOOOO-- do I go with "the gun I've always wanted since I was a wee lad" or with something more recent that gets a boatload of great reviews? If I get a PPQ (9mm or .22lr), will a piece of me regret that I didn't get that "one gun" that I always come back to (ppk)?

While trying to make my decision, I have tried to piece together the puzzle of the PPK(/s) family, to help me decide. Reading and watching reviews, of course, but then trying to figure out which model(s) were produced where, which were generally regarded as good or bad, etc. And now coming to find out that the "originals," even if I did want to save up and spend way too much on, people seem to regard as something to be displayed rather than fired.. due to age of the pistol. That's just utterly disappointing! (but completely understandable)

I'm having trouble, however, because while people have extreme opinions about various models of PPK and PPKs, I haven't found a definitive set of identifiers to tell them apart. Serial numbers, perhaps. But there is also apparently different styling, markings, coloration, etc that are much easier tells of lineage than trying to decipher a serial number. However I have yet to find a place that seems to pull it all together from an _objective_ point of view (e.g. photos organized by models, years and locations of manufacturer, etc).

Then I read that "new" (old design) "all metal" PPK's are going to come back out, which seems to mean that people are really excited about this over the zinc alloy and other metals used in recent years. Seems this has been advertised for a while now with little progress, but then in the past week I've seen (here) that apparently all-metal is really coming back! Yay! I think??? Some here seem excited.. Some seem pessimistic (e.g. is this new design going to make the umarex versions something to be sought after, "instead of that new junk?").

And here I am, an absolute n00b, who just wants to feel like a kid again (now that I'm old enough to have disposable income!), playing spy-vs-spy at the range...

So, here's where I'm at.
  • Yes, the PPQ interests me. A lot. And a .22lr option makes it even more affordable.
  • But, I'm not ashamed to admit that the PPK just tugs at my childhood heart (and of course to show my dad "my new toy").
  • I feel a PPQ, while exciting and fun, will leave me wanting.
  • But, from what I've been reading, "old PPK's are for show, not for fun, and new PPK's are just junk."
  • There's some new "all steel" version coming out, but it's brand new, so will it be "junk" also?

Well, there it is. Heart-on-shoulder style. Of course I'm hoping to be reassured that a PPK is a good choice, and that the new ones are "worth waiting for." But, I also am willing to listen to hard truths if I need to just get a PPQ for fun and wait (and save up) for the day when I can afford an old PPK "show piece."

What's a kid (at heart) to do?

cheers,
..dane
Just so you know, the James Bond in the movies and James Bond in the books, are different in many ways. Like equipment. I swear fealty to the book version which means Walther PPK, Rolex and Aston Martin. Anything else (James Bond with an Omega? Please....) is rubbish.
 

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I wish you luck,but my prayer will be answered first,& that's a PPK in .40 Winchester.
Hahaha......
 

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The Walther P5, your welcome........
No thank you required, as the only place this could be true, is the MOVIE Octo***** At this point, the Walther PPK was Bond's main gun. As for the
Walther P5, Bond briefly replaces his PPK with this larger 9mm gun. The switchover appears to take place after the taxi chase ("I appear to have misplaced my PPK." he tells Q). All this happened in the MOVIE, not the short story written by Ian Fleming.

The point of my original response was Bond's personal, normal, carry gun. He used dozens of different firearms over the course of his adventures. He even uses a CZ 58 automatic rifle. He took this gun off one of Kamal Khan's men and fires it while sliding down a bannister. But that does not make it James Bond's gun (except possession is 9/10s of the law....).
 

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So, first things first - that was the longest intro post...ever. Congrats!

Second, if you are truly only going to get one gun (a near impossibility, they are as addictive as heroin), decide first what the gun is for. If you have your heart set on a Bondesque PPK, then get one. If you want to stay true to the design and early Bond, then .32/7.65 is clearly the only choice. If you want to enjoy a pleasant range trip with cheap ammo, then get yourself a PP or PPK/S in .22 and be very happy. Forget the S&W iteration of the PPK/S carried by Daniel Craig, there are no lighted buttons on the beaver tail :) While Bond always rolled with Walther after losing the little .25 Beretta, don’t overlook the Manurhin pistols, they are every bit as good as a Walther at a lower price point. But, Bond didn’t carry Manurhin, at least not knowingly ;) (inside joke about postwar Walthers)

If you want a more retro-cool gun that Bond used for a short period in the movies, then take DUA’s advice (and mine) and get yourself the Cadillac of single-stack all-metal Walthers, the P5. It is a great range gun, tons of fun, and you can confound everybody at the range by flipping brass to the left instead of the more common right side. However, Roger Moore carried a P5 while wearing that silly gypsy costume on the train, so the movie P5 gets two demerits in my book.

Finally, if you want a modern, super-adaptable 9mm for the range, home defense, and carry purposes, then look no further than a P99 AS compact. My semi-educated $0.02.
 

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"Roger Moore carried a P5 while wearing that silly gypsy costume on the train, so the movie P5 gets two demerits in my book."


Hahaha, mine too!


If Connery had carried two L 102A1 P5s as Bond, I may have bought that pair of NIB sequential SN# L102A1s from Gabe's Guns on GB.
 
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Yeah, those were sweet, but seriously overpriced. Did they ever sell?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks everyone for the warm welcome and the early feedback. I'm gonna stop by a local shop on the way home tonight and chat them up a bit about what they're hearing re: the new ppk's and see what they say...

..dane
 

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Discussion Starter #13
So, first things first - that was the longest intro post...ever. Congrats!
Sorry, I've never been known for brevity. I'm an engineer. :eek:

Second, if you are truly only going to get one gun (a near impossibility, they are as addictive as heroin), decide first what the gun is for. If you have your heart set on a Bondesque PPK, then get one. If you want to stay true to the design and early Bond, then .32/7.65 is clearly the only choice. If you want to enjoy a pleasant range trip with cheap ammo, then get yourself a PP or PPK/S in .22 and be very happy. Forget the S&W iteration of the PPK/S carried by Daniel Craig, there are no lighted buttons on the beaver tail :) While Bond always rolled with Walther after losing the little .25 Beretta, don’t overlook the Manurhin pistols, they are every bit as good as a Walther at a lower price point. But, Bond didn’t carry Manurhin, at least not knowingly ;) (inside joke about postwar Walthers)
Thanks. You talk about S&W, but there are also the more modern variants too, right? The curren/Umarex? (Or are those S&W also?) What are your thoughts there? I don't mind at all looking on the used market. But I do definitely want something to actually shoot and play with. I'm not looking for a trophy to look at and never be used..

As I mentioned earlier, I'm still not very confident regarding how to "tell them apart" in my local pawn store. I wouldn't know a good one from a junker if my life depended on it. :confused:

I've heard brief mention of the Manurhin elsewhere but I really don't know anything about it. Is that a PPK knock-off by another manufacturer? I was beginning to think that it was just another (french?) authorized manufacturer?

If you want a more retro-cool gun that Bond used for a short period in the movies, then take DUA’s advice (and mine) and get yourself the Cadillac of single-stack all-metal Walthers, the P5. It is a great range gun, tons of fun, and you can confound everybody at the range by flipping brass to the left instead of the more common right side. However, Roger Moore carried a P5 while wearing that silly gypsy costume on the train, so the movie P5 gets two demerits in my book.
You know I can't say I ever noticed that it was different. Sure looks a lot like a PPK to the casual observer. Neat looking, too. I'll put it on my list of models to look into, gypsy costumes aside! :rolleyes:

..dane
 

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Very interesting “welcome thread”.
Welcome from Florida by the way.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
So it seems only the .22 chambered PPK's are available with a threaded barrel for full-on spy fun. I have read a little bit about people trying to suppress a .380acp and apparently it is difficult at best to do well.

A friend also recently reminded me that such a short frame pistol isn't really accurate long-range, so I need to be thinking about what's the point. There was some good advice earlier about that. If I just want to be a grown up spy-kid, get the .22 with a suppressor and have fun. if I want to practice accuracy, get something more suited to that.

I'm starting to understand why people say firearms are like lays potato chips ("you can't have just one!") ... and I haven't even bought my first yet...

..dane
 

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......A friend also recently reminded me that such a short frame pistol isn't really accurate long-range, so I need to be thinking about what's the point......

I disagree with your friend.


Said it before and will say it again, P5!!!


The Walther P5 and Heckler & Koch P7 are BOTH capable of sub 1" 8 rd groups @ 25 meters when bench rested, and both are certainly "Bond" worthy.
 

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SP5 E5

Wow, what a grey morning spirit lifter thread!
Who would have guessed an engineer?
Love the long post, and the fun replies.
And none of them could have a reason to say "post photos"!
It don't get any better than that!
Hey, get a .22, and get a .32. Ones that work and
are not too special to shoot. Live it up!
You and I may not make the serious collectors happy.
Maybe try a different forum?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Said it before and will say it again, P5!!!
:D Thanks @DeutschlandUberAlles. I really don't know much about the P5... Heck I spend way too much time today at work looking at the TPH that I also knew nothing about but looks _very_ similar to a PPK... (From what I gather, "a working TPH can be a lucky find but a neat little thing it is!")

I will say, a P5 Compact looks REALLY nice with the dark metal and the wood grip.. what are "the things to know" when looking for one of these beauties? I'm not averse to it at this point! :)

Wow, what a grey morning spirit lifter thread!
Who would have guessed an engineer?
Love the long post, and the fun replies.
And none of them could have a reason to say "post photos"!
It don't get any better than that!
Hey, get a .22, and get a .32. Ones that work and
are not too special to shoot. Live it up!
You and I may not make the serious collectors happy.
Maybe try a different forum?
heh- thanks @71B20. not sure what you mean by 'who would have guessed an engineer'... I thought it pretty obvious with all my verbosity and questions. lol!

I've been quite pleased with the support here so far. The only gun forum i've registered as thus far... :)

cheers,
..dane
 

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Whew... GunBroker.com shows some pretty steep prices on P5's!

Unless you've got a deal to give me, that may be a bit out of my league...

..dane

IMHO, the current P5 market is overvalued at the moment.


I would expect +95% P5 to be ~$1k range by the summer.


Lots of info on prices, and details about the P5 in the P5 section of Walther Forums.
 
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