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Discussion Starter #1
In a memory of my grandfather (who was Titos partisan army officer fighting 4ys vs. german occupation) I have his PP.
How he get it, I dont know -> let say a "vet bring back". Gun is in normal working condition. Fully operative. Classic 7.65mm cal. and in a leather holster.

Intro:
Due to SN and other characteristics I think it is 3rd PP variation, production year late 41 or early 42, high polish finish, blued small parts, nonweigted standard grips, standard millitary WaA proofs and E/N inspector proofs, only 1 magazine. It is classic WW2 german officer side arm. Additional slide numbering is showing me that gun was a special contract - probably Luftwaffe. But mag is not numbered to the gun ( ! Luftwaffe has numbered magazines to the gun !), although it is wartime. Leather holster is a generic E/B police style holster, the same as also for Mauser HSc or Sauer 38h were used...Are mag/s and holster swapped during war ? I dont know.

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Holster has police stamp E/B and was produced by Otto Sindel Leatherfabrik in Berlin 1941.
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Dilema:
Slide Walther legend was milled away. Only slight "mod PP" letters are still visible...millitary WaA359 stamps are normal visible.
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Inspector E/N proof on a right slide side (bellow ejection port) is also milled away - see the milling lines...Inspector proof on a barrel and on a muzzle are normal visible and present.
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I can understand why my grandfather tried to remove Nazi signs away from gun. There was to much horror at that time....

And now finally - question for experts, was slide reblued after the milling Nazi signs away or milling doesnt influence to the finish ?

(I apologise for my English, I am not a native :), I hope we understand each other)
 

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What an interesting background and memento of your grandfather! That theater of war saw some incredible inhumanity, while in Bosnia I visited some of the sites of the battes and monuments like the one at Sutjeska. Sad to see that the current inhabitants of the region were so disinterested in them.

I think your side was filed down and reblued, otherwise it would be patina-hued (ie rusted) steel. It does have a serious impact on collector value, but oh, what a family heirloom.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
What an interesting background and memento of your grandfather! That theater of war saw some incredible inhumanity, while in Bosnia I visited some of the sites of the battes and monuments like the one at Sutjeska. Sad to see that the current inhabitants of the region were so disinterested in them.

I think your side was filed down and reblued, otherwise it would be patina-hued (ie rusted) steel. It does have a serious impact on collector value, but oh, what a family heirloom.
Yes. Balkan theater was not a big size as let say Eastern front, but in inhumanity and atrocities done, the same stuff.
Situation nowdays - I will not comment.

About rebluing I think you are right. It should be done just after the war...
Tnx
 

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It was probably sanded and reblued after the war when it was still a working gun and not a "collectible". Don't worry about your English. We can understand you just fine. I wish we had more European members.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
.... I wish we had more European members.
I can speak for myself and my country (which is a part of EU family) and will try to explain why back here this is not a very popular "sport" like it is in USA.

1. EU gun legislation is very strict and severe. It takes ages, expenses and nerves to obtain a gun permit, even for collecting.
2. Weapons are expensive, collectible even more expensive, I can say the price tag is in double value as in USA.
3. Collectible WW2 weapons - they are rare to very rare. Explanation is very simple, both sides suffered so much, that during and after the war majority of equipment was destroyed. Specially Wermacht weaponry, at that times people cant stand the view on a Eagle and everthing else connected to a Eagle.
4. I must say I was very very surprised when I saw how much collectible WW2 weapons are in USA. How much vets brought back and in a mint or near mint condition. Collectible paradise.
 

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I can speak for myself and my country (which is a part of EU family) and will try to explain why back here this is not a very popular "sport" like it is in USA.

1. EU gun legislation is very strict and severe. It takes ages, expenses and nerves to obtain a gun permit, even for collecting.
2. Weapons are expensive, collectible even more expensive, I can say the price tag is in double value as in USA.
3. Collectible WW2 weapons - they are rare to very rare. Explanation is very simple, both sides suffered so much, that during and after the war majority of equipment was destroyed. Specially Wermacht weaponry, at that times people cant stand the view on a Eagle and everthing else connected to a Eagle.
4. I must say I was very very surprised when I saw how much collectible WW2 weapons are in USA. How much vets brought back and in a mint or near mint condition. Collectible paradise.


Please, Tinker73, don't be angry about my following post.
Your post describes the situation in the EU country Slovenia, but in some points the situation in the EU country Germany is different. To avoid the impression that it is the same everywhere in the EU, I write the following sentences.

About your first point:
1. EU gun legislation is very strict and severe. It takes ages, expenses and nerves to obtain a gun permit, even for collecting.
It's the same in Germany. So no further comment on my part.

About your second point:
2. Weapons are expensive, collectible even more expensive, I can say the price tag is in double value as in USA.
New weapons are partly more expensive in Germany, partly the same price, partly cheaper than in the USA. That often depends on the manufacturer and the type of weapon. Collector's guns currently have roughly the same prices in Germany as in the USA, and in some cases they are even considerably cheaper (e.g. Walther PP, PPK, P38; or my P 5 compact, which in the USA would be worth at least around 900 to 1000 dollars ).

On your third point:
3. Collectible WW2 weapons - they are rare to very rare. Explanation is very simple, both sides suffered so much, that during and after the war majority of equipment was destroyed. Specially Wermacht weaponry, at that times people cant stand the view on a Eagle and everthing else connected to a Eagle.
Such a phobia against Wehrmacht weapons as you describe it for Slovenia, in my opinion and memory, did not exist so strongly in Germany. Therefore, collectors' weapons are not as rare in Germany as you describe it for Slovenia, which of course inevitably affects the prices as described already.

On your fourth point:
4. I must say I was very very surprised when I saw how much collectible WW2 weapons are in USA. How much vets brought back and in a mint or near mint condition. Collectible paradise.
That amazed me at the beginning of my participation in this forum as well. However, it seems that many weapons of WW2 were exported to the USA after WW2 as well.
Of course this applies to Walther weapons, which were manufactured after WW2 and have been sold in the US for a number of years at a much higher price than can be obtained in Europe. A typical example of this is my P4 with the additional slide of a P38k, which I sold to a German arms dealer in 2018. I was able to uncover the attempted fraud with the slide by pure chance. But the gun, tinkered with a Bundeswehr frame and the P38k's slide, still sold for a decent price.
Nevertheless, I also got a good price for the P4 / 38k in Germany compared to the purchase price from 1987. ;)

With this article I have tried to describe the situation in Germany a little more precisely after Tinker73's article on the situation in Slovenia.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
GeMor thanks for explanation. I accept your point of view with no problem. Germany is 40x bigger in population than Slovenia and so is also the market.

P.S.
One another thing about WW2 weapons origin at our places - during WW2 my country was half occupated by Germany, half by Italy. Italy capitulated in 43 which leeds to mass confistacion of their weapons by partisan troops - so all kind of collectible Beretta guns and Carcano/Beretta rifles are quite common. Wermacht weapons not so.
 

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Tinker thank you for sharing your PP story. I al have a PP that was brought home from the war. It’s a RJ marked firearm. It was stored inside its holster from 1945 to 2019 Resulting in severe corrosion pitting. None the less, after a professional (Earl) service, cleaning and spring replacement the gun performers perfectly. To my, it’s better then a pristine example. I take it out often to my backyard range. One of the most cherished guns I possess...Jack
 

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Great story and a fine pistol. Over here, we want pristine pistols, but putting the gun in context, it's the Only Way it could have been done in post WW 2. Likely shows the gun to have a combat connection. Remove the hated Nazi symbols. Collector value wouldn't have been an issue then, and in the US wasn't particularly thought of in 1945. See how many GI Vet bring-backs were plated. Now, 70 years on, we'd prefer the pitted P-guns to a shiny plated guns.

Mosin Nagant 91-30s were cleansed. And K98ks captured by the Russians had their Nazi symbols ground off.
 

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It looks exactly like a pistol that has been through a war should look. It was a tool then and is still a tool. It's a working pistol with a direct family history. Almost enough said. I'd keep it and pass it down in the family. How are you ever going to get another one like it. You aren't. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #12
It looks exactly like a pistol that has been through a war should look. It was a tool then and is still a tool. It's a working pistol with a direct family history. Almost enough said. I'd keep it and pass it down in the family. How are you ever going to get another one like it. You aren't. 1917
Correct. That is all of the story.
For me personal - 1st, father to son legacy in person with a reminder to some pretty unpleasant times and 2nd, WW2 collectible gun which drives me to study arms of WW2.
 
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