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Discussion Starter #1
I am amazed at how easy this gun breaks down...field strips. And it goes back together just as easily.

At this time, that's all the positive credit that I can give my new CREED.

First, you had better have a mag loader of some sort. The 15 round mag has no thumb tab to help load the magazine. And the spring is VERY strong. I could only load five rounds by hand, and I fought really hard to load the fifth one.

I've shot a box of 50 rounds through it. Not real happy. But I'm pretty sure that my problems is just a worm that needs to be worked out.

When I racked the slide the first time, it did well. After that, nothing was pretty. Not including the first racking, every time the slide move back to eject the spent brass, it would not fully return to the ready position. The slide stopped about an eighth of an inch from the ready position. I had to actually bump the slide forward for every shot I took. That means 50 shot....5 rounds in a magazine for 10 magazines. I bought two extra mags and used all four, so I know it's not a problem with the mag. It did it to every shot for all ten sets.

See the attachement



I called Walther/Ft. Smith. The tech told me that I might have to squeeze the grip harder. (???) Someone else on another thread said that tightning his grip solved this problem for him. I will do that in a day or to.

Also the tech sent me an email with all the recommended ammo that Walther likes to use in their different guns. The ammo that I was using that day was not on their list.

He said that if these two things do not solve the problem, then I should send my CREED back to mama.

Has anyone else had this kind of problem?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
After a thorough cleaning, and running two of the brands of 9mm ammo recommended by the Walther tech, I headed to the range again.

Not a bit of change. Four brand new magazines. Using all four, the slide continued to fail to fully return to the firing position almost every time. It stops about an eighth of an inch almost every time. When It happens, I can take the thumb of my shooting hand and push it forward easily. Very little resistance. I don't have to tap it or slap it forward. I don't believe that it's hanging up on anything since it is so easy to push forward.

Any ideas? It's about to go back to Ft. Smith.
 

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Not to sound flip, but you are not limp wristing it? Also, what type and brand of ammo have you ran through it? Maybe run some "hot" rounds, like the NATO rounds or some known "hotter" loaded ammo?

It just sounds like it is losing slide velocity somehow.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Not to sound flip, but you are not limp wristing it? Also, what type and brand of ammo have you ran through it? Maybe run some "hot" rounds, like the NATO rounds or some known "hotter" loaded ammo?

It just sounds like it is losing slide velocity somehow.
Thanks for the Reply, 40pps... I didn't take your comment as flippant in any way. Your reply and questions were right on target, as those are the exact things that the Walther tech discussed with me.

When I spoke to Walther the tech directed me to be sure I used a very strong grip. So I was particular about that today. But I have worked on my Isosolese stance and strong two-handed grip with elbows close to being tightly locked until I got to where my target shooting is pretty accurate. However, I cannot understand how a loose grip on the pistol would affect the slide return. Perhaps you could explain that if you get a chance.

He also sent me a list of Walther's recommended ammo for all the different handguns. For the 9mm guns, the list said..in This order:
(but I am not sure that the order is that important. Looks like they are listing well known 115 grain rounds in each case)

1. RemingtonUMC 115gr.

2 Winchester Target Range (White Box) 115 gr.,

3. Federal115 Gr.


4. FIOCCHI 9AP 115 gr.

The first time I went to the range with it, I shot one box of Remington UMC.
Today I brought Winchester (White Box) and FIOCCHI 9AP.
In other words, three of the four recommended brands. I two Academy Sports and a Super Walmart, and could not locate any of the Federal
 

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Let someone(Preferably an experienced shooter) else shoot it. If the problem persists it's the gun.
 

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"every time the slide move back to eject the spent brass, it would not fully return to the ready position. The slide stopped about an eighth of an inch from the ready position. I had to actually bump the slide forward for every shot I took."

OK, this FTRTB is occurring while actually shooting. How bout when you simply rack the slide by hand with NO ammo. Will the slide return to battery then? How bout locking the slide back and using the slide stop to drop/release the slide (again, NO ammo)?

"I called Walther/Ft. Smith. The tech told me that I might have to squeeze the grip harder. (???) Someone else on another thread said that tightening his grip solved this problem for him. I will do that in a day or to."

The CREED manual also says to use a firm grip (page 19).

I don't have a CREED or knowledge of the inter-workings. I do know its hammer fired. Don't know if, when the slide cycles, it completely cocks the hammer. But, the recoil spring, hammer spring, extractor spring and magazine spring ALL have to play nice together to ensure proper operation of the pistol. Ammo can also play a factor...too weak or too powerful can cause problems. As previously mention, most pistols require a firm grip.

Without handling your pistol, I can't hand cycle the slide to feel for any rough spots. However you’ve already indicated that the slide is hanging up (1/8" from battery), etc, etc. When you use your thumb to press the slide the rest of the way into battery, do you give it a little nudge and the slide just jumps the rest of the way into battery, or do you have to use a continuous pressure to force the slide all the way/completely forward?

On a PPQ at a point about 3/8" from battery, the barrel is starting to 'cam' up, sliding the rim of the case, under the extractor and also starts sliding the end of the case UP the breech face.....read that as a little additional friction/resistance ..... and it’s doing this at a point where the slide is just about out of forward momentum. So, in this case forward momentum (the speed of the slide moving forward), and that's based on the recoil impulse generated by the particular ammo you're using, combined with the strength of the recoil spring ALL play a factor in getting the slide to make a COMPLETE return to battery.

So, WHAT's happening at the 1/8" point on a CREED? With NO ammo in the pistol and the hammer locked back and the slide fully forward, how much pressure is holding the slide in battery? In other words, how much pressure does it take to move the slide 1/16" rearward from battery? I'm just wondering if you have a weak recoil spring.....and might benefit from a replacement.

Poop like this is really hard to diagnose without having pistol in hand.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
"OK, this FTRTB is occurring while actually shooting. How bout when you simply rack the slide by hand with NO ammo. Will the slide return to battery then? How bout locking the slide back and using the slide stop to drop/release the slide (again, NO ammo?"

FTRTB? Failure To Return To Battery!! Now I know that 'Battery' means too! Kewl!

When I rack the slide the first time, in usually returns to the firing position. I think It failed to do so just once in 15 magazine cycles. And I'm not even sure about that.

Also, If I release the slide lock, it has always fully returned.

It operates correctly with and without rounds in the magazine in both of the cases you query.

The problem exists when I actually fire a shot and it recycles the next round in.

"When you use your thumb to press the slide the rest of the way into battery, do you give it a little nudge and the slide just jumps the rest of the way into battery, or do you have to use a continuous pressure to force the slide all the way/completely forward?"

No, it is not a "Tap, then the actions continues on by itself. I have to continue the pressure all the way to the end. And it's not much pressure at all. As I wrote before, I can easily push it with my right thumb (right handed) without moving any other parts of my two handed grip.

"So, WHAT's happening at the 1/8" point on a CREED? With NO ammo in the pistol ... I'm just wondering if you have a weak recoil spring"

This gun has the strongest recoil spring of any gun hat I have fired. I sometimes try to pull it back just a short distance to try to get the hammer reset without ejecting the unfired bullet. I can't do it...that is, move it just a half-inch or so. I have to get a very strong grip and fight it to get it moving. That always results in a full ejection of the round. The recoil spring is too strong for a 70 year old with acute R. Arthritis to try to surgically maneuver it.
 

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Mudbug,


1. Try using 124grain 9mm ammo. Forget using any 115 grain ammo, and get some 124grain 9mm ammo to test out. Federal American Eagle would be a good choice. Also, I would try shooting one box of 124grain 9mm +P ammo also. Again, Federal or whatever American brand of ammo you can find in 124grain 9mm +P.


2. As you have already been told, make sure you grip that pistol nice and tight - very solid hold on the gun. This is just to make sure that you are not limp wristing your Creed when firing it. Limp wristing a pistol can induce failure to return to battery.


If you make sure that you have a nice solid hold when firing your creed, and also use 124 grain 9mm ammo (or better - use 124 grain of 9mm +P ammo), and you still have the same FTRTB issue - then you need to send your Creed into Walther for inspection. Try the above and let us know how it goes.
 

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BTW, if you limp wristing the gun it’s your WRISTS, and not the grip potentially. Also, make sure you are not riding the slide!!!!

A video will Help a bunch!

If you give the gun to an expert shooter and they have the same issues then we are on to something.

Make sure the gun is clean and lubed too.

And IMO it shoot any ammo you feed it. 115, 124, 147....it should cycle.

It shouldn’t be hard to rack at all....that has me suspicious.

My guess is this:

- Limp wristing

- Riding the slide

- dry and no lube

- Bad machining and the slide is rubbing.
 

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When I rack the slide the first time, in usually returns to the firing position. I think It failed to do so just once in 15 magazine cycles. And I'm not even sure about that.

Also, If I release the slide lock, it has always fully returned. Is that without as well as WITH ammo.....meaning you can insert a loaded mag with he slide locked back, thumb the slide lock, meaning releasing the slide by depressing the slide lock and the slide will zoom forward, striping and loading a round and continue forward into battery, meaning All the way forward?

It operates correctly with and without rounds in the magazine in both of the cases you query. Kinda like the above scenario, you can release the slide, using the slide lock and the slide will spring forward into battery.....with or without ammo? Hmmmm, that's odd.

The problem exists when I actually fire a shot and it recycles the next round in. So, you fire a shot, the slide moves rearward, removing and ejecting the empty brass, then strips the top round from the mag and loads it into the chamber and continues forward and stops about 1/8" from the fully forward position? That could be weak ammo.....but I really think you've got something else going on.

No, it is not a "Tap, then the actions continues on by itself. I have to continue the pressure all the way to the end. And it's not much pressure at all. As I wrote before, I can easily push it with my right thumb (right handed) without moving any other parts of my two handed grip. Its really hard to troubleshoot these kinds of things via long distance.

This gun has the strongest recoil spring of any gun hat I have fired. I find this odd. I sometimes try to pull it back just a short distance to try to get the hammer reset without ejecting the unfired bullet. I can't do it...that is, move it just a half-inch or so. I find this REALLY odd. I have to get a very strong grip and fight it to get it moving. That always results in a full ejection of the round. There's definitely some wrong here. The recoil spring is too strong for a 70 year old with acute R. Arthritis to try to surgically maneuver it.[/quote]

This pistol needs to go back to Walther. Or, if you know a good gunsmith, you might ask him to take a quick look at it....he might be able to diagnose it in a minute or two.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Mudbug,


1. Try using 124grain 9mm ammo. Forget using any 115 grain ammo, and get some 124grain 9mm ammo to test out. Federal American Eagle would be a good choice. Also, I would try shooting one box of 124grain 9mm +P ammo also. Again, Federal or whatever American brand of ammo you can find in 124grain 9mm +P.


2. As you have already been told, make sure you grip that pistol nice and tight - very solid hold on the gun. This is just to make sure that you are not limp wristing your Creed when firing it. Limp wristing a pistol can induce failure to return to battery.


If you make sure that you have a nice solid hold when firing your creed, and also use 124 grain 9mm ammo (or better - use 124 grain of 9mm +P ammo), and you still have the same FTRTB issue - then you need to send your Creed into Walther for inspection. Try the above and let us know how it goes.
I can put some 124 gr ammo through it on Thursday as well. I'll post how that works out.


Well, I didn't get to try any 124 grain bullets.
"Forget using any 115 grain ammo, and get some 124grain 9mm ammo to test out."

Why? Explain the difference in the 115 that Walther recommends and the 124 that you are suggesting.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
BTW, if you limp wristing the gun it’s your WRISTS, and not the grip potentially. AGREED! Also, make sure you are not riding the slide!!!!

A video will Help a bunch!

If you give the gun to an expert shooter and they have the same issues then we are on to something. I'v had two other experts fire it, as well as myself. I am not a newbie, so to speak. No offense take, none intended

Make sure the gun is clean and lubed too. I spent about an hour doing that before I took it to the range Saturday.

And IMO it shoot any ammo you feed it. 115, 124, 147....it should cycle.

It shouldn’t be hard to rack at all....that has me suspicious. It's pretty tough.

My guess is this:

- Limp wristing

- Riding the slide

- dry and no lube

- Bad machining and the slide is rubbing.
Please assume that I am 'experienced' and am an excellent shot with a handgun. No way that you can know that, so just take my word. I am ruling out Limp Wristing and Riding the Slide, but those things would certainly be a factor. Rule out the 'dry and no lube' as well. As I wrote above, I had just cleaned the gun an hour before. However, you might know that the Walther tech that I talked to last Friday morning said that I should have a completely DRY gun. No oil residue at all! That surprised me, so I didn't exactly follow that one. It got a light oiling.
 

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I didn't know the Creed was hammer fired. I think OldFart has it about right in his first post. There are several things going on right as the slide is closing. Cartridge chambering, rim sliding up the breech face and sliding under the extractor and the barrel locking up. Further shooting might clear it up. A little light oil won't hurt anything. It is just about always recommended to break a gun in especially one that you might use for self defense but I have never purchased a new semi auto in center fire that has required any break in to operate 100%.

Mudbug, I would field strip it...look at the chamber very carefully and make sure it is clean and allows a cartridge to fully seat. You can remove the recoil spring and barrel and remount the slide. This is good for not having to fight the spring while you pull the slide rearward to check smoothness. Absolutely don't load or fire it with the recoil spring removed. You will need the barrel and spring installed to check for smooth lockup of course.

When you fire and the slide doesn't close, keeping finger off the trigger and the pistol pointed in a safe direction try to look in through the ejection port at the cartridge rim and see if it is binding or what exactly is going on as you slowly press the slide closed. Could be an extractor issue, could just need breaking in. With an unloaded pistol you should be able to pull the slide back any amt of distance you choose and it should fully close. 1/4", 1/2", 3/4", etc.

If it doesn't.....it needs to go back. There is something other than the rim dragging up the breech face or a tight extractor. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I didn't know the Creed was hammer fired. I think OldFart has it about right in his first post. There are several things going on right as the slide is closing. Cartridge chambering, rim sliding up the breech face and sliding under the extractor and the barrel locking up. Further shooting might clear it up. A little light oil won't hurt anything. It is just about always recommended to break a gun in especially one that you might use for self defense but I have never purchased a new semi auto in center fire that has required any break in to operate 100%.

Mudbug, I would field strip it...look at the chamber very carefully and make sure it is clean and allows a cartridge to fully seat. I HAVE DONE THIS. You can remove the recoil spring and barrel and remount the slide. This is good for not having to fight the spring while you pull the slide rearward to check smoothness. I'LL TRY THIS IN THE MORNING Absolutely don't load or fire it with the recoil spring removed. You will need the barrel and spring installed to check for smooth lockup of course.

When you fire and the slide doesn't close, keeping finger off the trigger and the pistol pointed in a safe direction try to look in through the ejection port at the cartridge rim and see if it is binding or what exactly is going on as you slowly press the slide closed. THE EJECTION PORT IS NOT OPEN TO LOOK THROUGH. THE SLIDE IS ALMOST FULLY CLOSED.....NOT QUITE. Could be an extractor issue, could just need breaking in. With an unloaded pistol you should be able to pull the slide back any amt of distance you choose and it should fully close. 1/4", 1/2", 3/4", etc.

If it doesn't.....it needs to go back. There is something other than the rim dragging up the breech face or a tight extractor. 1917
1917 - I hoped that you would find this thread after I told you about it.
This is an issue that I have already spent too much personal time with. It's a band new gun with about 100 rounds fired through it. It never worked well.

Walther made a few suggestions to check, which I did, and gave me the suggested ammo list. I tried three of the four recommended types. They all failed exactly the same way.

It's time that Mama Walther, the Ft. Smith facility took a look at it. No one should have this kind of problem with a brand new gun now that Iv'e done th recommended list of "checks" that they instructed me to do.

I emailed Glenn and told him about this problem as well. We'll see what he says tomorrow..or whenever he replies.
 

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Hmmmm????? I can post again this evening. Something has been off. I trust you got my e-mail Mudbug. Let's see...your P22 won't run, your creed won't run....did I mention you can't borrow my pistols....:D 1917

Ft Smith can sort em out....might be as simple as a sticky extractor. Well, I heard from Glenn early this morning....mailing labels are on the way to you.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Not to sound flip, but you are not limp wristing it? Also, what type and brand of ammo have you ran through it? Maybe run some "hot" rounds, like the NATO rounds or some known "hotter" loaded ammo?

It just sounds like it is losing slide velocity somehow.
40PP - I called Walther about this problem. The sent me a list of ammo that they recommend. I was using two different ones of the four they suggested. So the ammo was recommended. All four were 115 grain.

The I sent it off to Walther/Ft.Smith.

Watch for an update later this evening. All problems has been worked out.
Great Gun! LOL! Really, though. Just as good I hoped it would be.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hmmmm????? I can post again this evening. Something has been off. I trust you got my e-mail Mudbug.

Let's see...your P22 won't run, your creed won't run....did I mention you can't borrow my pistols....:D 1917

Hell! I don't even want my other two guns to get near them.


Ft Smith can sort em out....might be as simple as a sticky extractor. Well, I heard from Glenn early this morning....mailing labels are on the way to you.
Is this kind of thing contageous?;):rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #20
And FINALLY!

Thanks to some help from 1911 and a fellow that he works with now and then at Walther/Ft Smith, the gun was shipped off on Friday, July 27th in Prepaid FedEx Mailers.

On Wednesday, Aug 1, I got a call from Walther. They found three defective parts that needed to be changed out. (On a brand new gun with less than 100 rounds through it) They did that and mailed the CREED back to me.,

It arrived on Friday, Aug 3 about 3pm. Too late to take it to the range, of course. Then it rained all day Saturday. Actually flooded the range.

Today...Sun Aug 5, I got to take ti to the range once more. It works perfectly!

I love the feel. Solid and full sized.

Accurate! At least as accurate as I am going to be get from it Off-Hand.
Certainly much more accuracy than I get from my Charter Arms snub nosed .38 Special, which is not surprising, since it ony has a 2" barrel.

Great Price! $269 at CDNN Sports for a $400 MSRP gun. Every gun shop that I spoke with locally said that the gun is proving to be a lot better than other in that price range. The CREED has only been out about two years. It's kind of a dark horse. For some reason, it has not become well known yet. I did a search for the Gun Of The Year for 2018, and the CREED was one of those on the short nomination list.

My faith in Walther got a bit wavey there for a couple of days, but in the end, they are making everything right.
 
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