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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
hi all,first time posting,short time lurker.first of all,let me apologize for not using capitals.i am not a great typist and find it inefficient for me.i will capitalize when necessary.also,i appreciate this forum and those responsible,thank you.

a few months ago i decided that i wanted two new pistols,one for home defence(although i prefer a shotgun) and one for conceal carry.i wanted to support my local and nearest shop but i went "armed" with knowledge on availability,options,reliability,price,ect. from internet stores,forums,the manufactures themselves,ect. i specifically decided on the new beretta 90-two(hd) and walther p99 AS(full size for cc) which i have wanted for many years.

i decided on the beretta first but had learned from berettausa that the type "g"(decocker only) would not be available for probably about a year since they where filling out contracts with this model.the type "f"(safety plus decocker) is available anywhere berettas are sold but i allready knew this and didn't want that one. so i decided to wait and move on to the walther but to first contact my local shop and get a "feel" for there service and price on the beretta so i can compare.

this is what he said,"beretta?,why would you want that,the new s&w m&p is TWICE the pistol that is."

i don"t want to go into details here about how much i know about berettas including all the myths and truths and hell that they have gone through and come out all the better in particular this model which is based on the 92. so, i decided to shut up and let him explain to me how the m&p is so superior and needless to say i was not impressed with anything he had to say.(this is not a critic on the m&p but on this person although i personally would wait about a year before even considering the m&p because of the mag dropping out problem).atleast he is a s&w dealer(which seem to provide pretty good service and gues what,they actually answer the phone)and this is where you need to get a walther.

at this point,you may be wondering why i would want to continue doing business with this guy and the answer to that is very simple.i was determined to use his own prejudice and lack of sales technic against him and get a good price. besides,if you have a problem with a walther(which i dought i would)you need to deal with s&w directly and they are pretty good.although i have to say,that when i contacted s&w to get some information on the p99,the guy on the phone knew next to nothing about the p99. he literally had to put me on hold for awhile to get all the information i wanted including simple availability questions. that's ok,i knew enough about the p99 for both of us but still.

so a few weeks go by and again i contact the same shop to see if i can order a p99 AS(elongated ambi slide release not available to us americans unless you can find a dao which i don't want,thats ok,it's not a deal breaker) and he did not recognize who he was talking to and guess what he said.

he said,"walther?,why would you want that?,the new s&w m&p is TWENTY times the pistol that is". :)eek: )mind you,i was not calling to ask questions but specifically to ask about placing an order. to make this already long story shorter,after a few days of back and forth,i managed to work him down on price to $545(excluding tax) which was better than what i had found on the internet especially when you include shipping more or less.i really wanted to phisically check the gun out thoroughly before accepting it to avoid hassles.

when i walked into the shop to place the order which he was expecting,guess what he did.remember,he already knew excatly what i wanted and what i was there for.....he walked me over to the counter on the side and proceeded to pull out two pistols,guess which ones,....thats right,m&p full and compact and proceeded to give me a lengthy explination as to why this is the best pistol in the world and why i have to have it without me even asking him about it.:)eek: :eek: ) at this point,i had to keep myself from laughing and when it was all over i simply said,"ok,now lets order the p99". the guy never mentioned the m&p again.:cool:

by the way,i had previously gone into another shop and the guy there told me,"p99?,man i have not seen one of those in years,i think they have been dicontinued." that guy was trying to sell me a block....i mean glock.

so this is my not to bad but slightly rocky road to ownership of the AWESOME p99...WOW,what an increadible grip and the sa trigger is the best i have ever felt on any normal production,out of the box pistol and the da is sweet as well(not too heavy,very progresive and miles ahead from pistols of years past). i have fired and/or owend many(sigs,h&ks,berettas etc.) although i do remember two 1911s that had very slightly lighter sa pulls but i don't like that platform as i was originally spoiled buy my first ever pistol,a p88.

incidently,my experience in buying the p99 may give atleast one clue as to why walthers are not more common.what a shame,in my opinion one of the most underratted but actually THE best polymer pistols around all with quality, reliability,true value and as icing on the cake,one of the most beautiful as well.
 

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"...what a shame,in my opinion one of the most underratted but actually THE best polymer pistols around all with quality, reliability,true value and as icing on the cake,one of the most beautiful as well."

'Couldn't say it better myself. By the way, I had two M&Ps. Both required trips back to the factory and still had problems. I got rid of them both. Actually they became trade bait for two of my Walther P99's - the best gun decision I ever made. A far superior gun IMHO. I firmly believe that if more M&P owners (just as one example) were introduced to the P99, they'd be buying P99's and not the M&P, the latter a gun that continues to be plagued (go to the M&P forum and read the complaints) by a too weak mag release and mags dropping while shooting. My P99's on the other hand have been outstanding from Day 1 and feel better in my hand.

Another sleeper is the Steyr MA1 in 9mm, .357 Sig or .40SW. Not quite as "refined" as the Walther P99 IMHO and a 5.5-6 lb. d/a trigger similar to the Glock's (I still prefer the Walther AS trigger), it is an excellent bargain at the street price of $350-400 (CDNN and Davidson's). Well made, accurate, reliable and funky trapezoid sights that grows on you. Get 'em while they're hot. Expect a hefty price increase come January 2008 so I'm told.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
thanks ninja,and yes i agree with you kraig,the styer is another one that is underrated and offers great value and from my limited knowledge about them also seem to have a good reputation on reliability. they have a really low barrel axis and a super good grip. i have never fired one only held several of them but i'm willing to bet that from that combination they have low recoil.

the only things i don't like about the styer is the trigger and grip angle. i tend not to like anything that gets between the skin on my index(trigger) finger and the trigger. the grip angle reminds me of blocks....sorry,glocks and 1911s that are not natural pointers for me even if a gazillion people carry them to work or compete with them. but,if someone likes those features i believe it represents super value as the quality seems to be totally there. i would first recommend that they at least try out a p99 though.:D
 

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Priller, the Steyr's grip is far better than the Glock's especially for those with smaller hands. Gone is that objectionable "hump" that has driven more than a few shooters to buy anything but a Glock. Don't get me wrong, Glock is a helluva good gun, reliable/rugged to a fault but a 2x4 is more comfortable in my hand.

Between the P99 and the MA1, I prefer the P99. It fits my hand perfectly, shoots great and I have really taken to the AS trigger. I also happen to think the P99 is one of the best looking guns out there though I am very impressed with the new HK P30. Everything I have read about it (ergonomics and shootability), indicates it is one helluva new gun.
 

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When I was shopping for my P99 AS, the first two shops were clueless and insisted they could not get one. I got the M&P song and dance from one shop, it felt OK but did not thrill me. The guy at the 3rd shop thought he'd have a hard time finding the AS version, he checked his computer and his wholesaler had 5 in stock so he ordered one for me and one for himself!
 

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When I was shopping for my P99 AS, the first two shops were clueless and insisted they could not get one. I got the M&P song and dance from one shop, it felt OK but did not thrill me. The guy at the 3rd shop thought he'd have a hard time finding the AS version, he checked his computer and his wholesaler had 5 in stock so he ordered one for me and one for himself!
One thing I learned from my M&P experience is to never buy a gun in its first year of introduction. The P99 has been around for years, the bugs have been worked out, and the odds are way in your favor that you will get a stellar performer.

I was introduced to the P99 strictly by accident. I was talking guns with my neighborhood gun shop manager and out of the blue he asked if I had ever seen or handled one. I said no and he proceeded to take two out of the showcase tucked away in a corner (got to make room for the Glocks you know), a compact and a f/s. Anyway, to say the rest is history is an understatement. I bought my first P99c AS in .40 then and there.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
kraig i agree,the styer has the third best grip i have ever felt.first is the p99,second is my star ultrastar but what i was refering to was it's grip angle.

if i pick a target,on the wall say,and i point the pistol at it in a natural gesture,as if i were pointing my finger and not bending my wrist slightly forward,when i come to adjust my eyes on the sights WITHOUT moving the pistol,i find that i am actually looking at the front top part of the slide and not through the sights.i'm refering to pistols like glocks,1911s and if i remember correctly the styer was this way also.

mental memory is very important to me and i tend to like shooting instinctively and going back and forth between pistols that have different grip angles does not help me.of course, you can EASILY do this but i tend to look at pistols as being in two camp in regards to grip angle,the one i already mentioned and the rest(berettas,hks,walthers,sigs,ect).

about the hk p30,that was actually one of the few i was actually considering but i didn't want to take the expensive road this time.they're like $750,although i do like hks construction. the p30 is actually the first pistol that i have seen to come along and seems to come close to equaling the p99 in grip,in fact, it almost looks as if they are copying it in grip profile but i have a p7m8 and i can tell you,that course sand paper feel that modern hks have does not feel anywhere near as good as the walther,especially at the range after about 50 shots.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
rww,i see i'm not the only one that got that sickening song and dance...hahahahaha. all kiding aside,i honestly do wish them and rugers sr9 the best of luck.
 

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HEHEH
that Ruger SR9 is a joke..... feels like there is rocks in the trigger
 

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P:

Currently use CCI Lawman FMJ for penetration. But I am looking at testing a batch of Win White Box flat nose FMJ for creater crushing capability and limitation of expansion to 16" per 4-layer denin clothed ballistic gelatin tests I have seen (as opposed to 19"+ I have seen for rounded FMJ 90-95 gr. rounds). Have eliminated most JHPs because of the lack of penetration that makes hits to the vitals highly unnecessary. May try the Speer Gold Dot 90 gr. JHP which I have seen results of a marginally acceptable 11 1/3" of penetration (and expansion to .50" thru clothed gelatin).
 

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"
because of the lack of penetration that makes hits to the vitals highly unlikely".
Selfdefense - Glad to see someone else that thinks the way I do when it comes to these small caliber pistols.........

PENETRATION ........ is the number one job of these tiny calibers. .380's do not pack enough punch to provide JHP's enough energy to do their job..... they must expand BUT they must provide a minimum of 12" of penetration........and that's after going through clothing or heavy winter coats.

tests have shown that Golden Saber .380 ammo will expand reliably inside a target ......... but only travels about 4" in doing so. Certainly not enough penetration to punch holes deep enough to let out the magic fluid.

For Air Marshalls they make a perfect bullet .380 JHP's for a back up weapon ........ very limited penetration, but reliable accuracy and expansion.

JF.
 
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