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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
---I just can't get the hang of the P99AS. I try and I try, but it remains an impossible challenge. At 21 feet, I am happy to get within a 10" circle.

The HKs, the Berettas, the SIGs, the BHPs, The PPK/S-1 -----all are good with me. All, except the PPK/S-1 and one Beretta are 9mm and I use Blazer Brass. The 380s are WWB blunt nose. Narry a problem with any of the guns with the ammunition.

I really don't want to part with the P99AS since I do not want it to "win", but it is not much fun taking it to the range. I certainly do not want to carry it. I want to master it foremost. Changing the back straps helps a bit, but has not solved the "problem". Now, others have fired it and done well.

I have a problem. Need advise, ridicule, sympathy or a cure.

Thanks
 

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I shoot my P99 AS almost as well as my $1000 1911.

I shoot my Sig P series guns and revolvers very well too. However, I cannot shoot my Beretta handguns worth a darn. I sold one Beretta at a loss after doing trigger work on it. Every time I went to the range, I felt like I was wasting ammunition.

Do you normally shoot in DA or SA? The reset is very short on the SA portion of the trigger (follow up shots).

How many rounds have you shot through the gun? The trigger smooths out after about 350-500 rounds. My last P99 was new and shoots like a dream from the first trip to the range. Keep in mind though that I was already used to the AS trigger.

Sometimes when I take several guns to the range, the different trigger types get me all confused, muscle memory or something. Do you shoot just one pistol at a session or switch back and forth?
Hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yep, others have shot it and done well.

Except for the BHP's and the P7, all are DA/SA. The P99AS is one of the first in my herd and it has always been the difficult one. So far, I have put 500 rounds through it with no mechanical problems. The trigger reset doesn't bother me and I have practiced a lot with the DA pull.

Range visits normally are with 2 or 3 guns, and if I take my time, I use about a hundred rounds with each. Sometimes take turns and sometimes use one at a time. Depends upon what I have. Naturally, I do have favorites.

I will keep on trying, but I agree-------at times I feel like I'm wasting ammo.

Thanks
 

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Well, if you get too frustrated I'll take it off your hands for $100 ;)

Seriously, I used to have a P99c with the AS trigger and once I got used to the odd take up on the first SA shot, I did well with it. I have a P7M8 and the P99c was nearly as accurate in my hands. I admit that I never shot the P99c in DA, however.
 

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FWIW:

I've never had a pistol as accurate as my P99c/AS.. And over the past 50+ years I've had a pile of them.

I did find out that the choice of grip backstrap I used had an effect on my accuracy. I swapped them out just to see is there was any difference in accuracy in over the other and I was amazed that using the small backstrap I was considerably more accurate that with the larger one.

I have smaller hands, so what works for me might not help you a bit, but please compare both backstraps and see if that makes any difference.

I hate to hear anyone unhappy with the accuracy of their Walther P99's as both my compact and full size are capable of much greater accuracy that this old fart is capable of taking advantage of. :)

Regards,

J.Pomeroy
 

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The Grip?

Did you try all three backstraps? I had a Sig P228 that I could not shoot accurately, but all my buddies could. After a year I gave up on it and sold it, and I attribute my problem to the grip. With the P99 you have some options, if you have long fingers try the large grip. Sometimes the small grip works for large hands, you just have to put alot of rounds downrange with each. In trying to shoot accurately the position of the trigger break has a great deal to do with it.
 

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At 21ft, i'm happy to get an 8" circle.

But it's not the gun, it's me. If I really take my time and line up shots, I can get a 3" group at 15 ft. This is NOT stellar shooting by any means, but it's far beyond the 12" group i used to get.

I believe with more time, more bullets, more trigger pulls i'll keep tightening up the group. Now, it may be the case that the P99 just isn't the gun for you - and that's ok :). But I'll venture to say that if you don't take it to the range and shoot it alot, you'll not get much improved results.

How many rds have you shot total through it, and how many do you shoot during an average range trip? How often do you take it to the range?

thorn
 

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Improved accuracy

I put a Hogue slip on grip made for Glock onto my P99C AS and it made a big difference on accuracy. The stock grip just didn't do it for me. The AS trigger pull gets very smooth after several hundred rounds and makes the only real challenges grip, sighting and technique. Some people on this site have recommended putting the red or green front sights on to enhance aim. You can check out youtube for great "how-to" videos on technique that may help improve accuracy. Check out IDPA or USPSA sites for more tips as well...Of course lots of practice doesn't hurt either.... Good Luck!
 

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At 21ft, i'm happy to get an 8" circle.

get a 3" group at 15 ft. This is NOT stellar shooting by any means, but it's far beyond the 12" group i used to get.

thorn
the only range i have access to is 25m.. about 80+ feet.

that's the shortest distance i've ever shot a pistol at.. so few ranges for pistol shooting here in New Zealand..

Keep shooting your Walther mate.. it'll improve, or you will ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I'll try and address your suggestions:

I find the small backstrap to feel the best in my hand and afford the best fit for control.

I have fired 500 rounds through it with some slowly improving results and now feel I have hit a wall. Target hits are scattered and not concentrated in one specific bias area. Each range use is about 100 rounds. I try my best to use it but admittedly, I will choose others for "fun" and satisfaction at the range.

The sights are no worse/no better than any of the others I have. Since front sight focus is near impossible for me, I use the sights as "guides" and tend to point shoot. I am a senior and have no desire to be a marksman; rather I am trying to renew some self defense skills.

A laser on the SIG P239 has helped me a lot. So, I now have a laser for use on the P99. It hasn't helped much. It does increase the "fun" part a bit, though.

I have no issues with other guns I have. All have "stock" sights having no-dot, two-dot or three-dot sights. (I have a .22 conversion kit for the BHP's and it has the no-dot sights. I just point shoot and have a blast with it. Results are quite acceptable.) Maybe it's as simple as the shape of the grip on the P99. And the trigger.

Well, ya'all got me thinking. I will take it to the range my next visit. I will think positive and do the best I can. Then I will try to do better.

Thanks for your help and patience.
 

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Ok Dave, I will throw in my 2 cents in an attempt to help your shooting accuracy.

Unfortunately you have already given up on one of the most important aspects of marksmanship ??? Front sight Focus.

In my program, I teach that the front sight MUST be in clear focus ???.and you need to do whatever it takes to accomplish this task. Most shooters try and focus on the Target, which is not advisable for ?tired old eyes?. Some young folks can bring their front sight and Target into crystal clear focus at the same time , but this ability quickly fades with age. When this happens ?.only the front sight is the most important of the two in bulls-eye type shooting.

So if you are establishing the proper sight picture ???your front sight should be crystal clear and in focus and the Target should be ?Blurry?. This condition tends to worry new shooters and they will begin to engage in a bad habit called ? Chasing the Target?. What happens with the untrained shooter ???is that his eyes will jump back and forth between the front sight and Target ? trying to get both in focus at the same time. And then there is the student that will even chase the Bullet holes ?.and lift his head off the sight plain to see if he can determine where his bullet [ each one ] has hit. Not a very good habit to get into. Stay Down on the gun until you are done firing the sequence.

Concentration on a clear front sight is paramount ???. Next ? adjust the rear sights to place the front blade where it needs to be within the sight picture and slowly pull the trigger. Taking equal amounts of Light on either side of the front sight blade is very important, but the rear sight blade need not be crystal clear. Again ??.. the front sight is most important in this type of shooting.

Now that you have conquered the front sight focus problem [ hopefully ] ?.you next task is to minimize trigger jerk. Weapons with extremely light SA modes or a great SA trigger pull will actually mask some of your trigger jerk. The gun?s Sear will let the firing pin go before your jerking has time to completely mess up the shot. A combat type weapon like the P-99 doesn?t have that ?light and fast? SA trigger pull like that of a 3 lb. pull on a 1911, so any jerking of the trigger will find its way into your accuracy. Practicing with SNAP CAPS is one of the best ways that I know of : First: determining how bad your jerking is ?if any ?? AND Helping you to over come that jerking of the trigger in response to recoil and noise. Just have someone load your magazine with a few snap caps OR load 2 or 3 magazines yourself and mix them up so you can?t anticipate where the snap caps were loaded. Now fire your P-99 slowly ?.and watch for ANY movement of the pistol when the snap cap is struck. Some people are ?shocked? at how much they jerk down on the weapon.

Hope some of this helps ??

JF.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Sniper--

I understand and appreciate your advice; However, my eyes and corrective lenses will not accomodate a focus at the distance of the front sight. It's not a matter of practice or control, it's a matter of eye age and decent vision correction. Now---others have suggested that I obtain lenses which allow me to focus on the front sight. Good idea for the range, but I am interested only in re-establishing my defensive skills. So, I must use my "normal" body and it's necessary attachments. Thus comes into play
the point shooting practice and the laser practice. Maybe not a purist's tack, but a reasonable one for me.

So far, I have done well with HK's, SIG's, BHP's and Berettas. I can do a 6" spread at 21 feet; better, with some. This is without a clear focus on the front sight. You can now understand why a laser helps me. After all of this garbly-goop, the P99 does not behave like the rest of the herd, even with the laser.

This issue, to me, is not a life-or-death issue, but one of interest. The P99 does not pose a critical situation, it just frustrates the poop out of me.

As an aside, depending upon my "wardrobe" of the day, I carry a PPK/S-1 in my front pocket or a SIG P239 (w/CT Grips) on my side. I am comfortable and able with either. (As you know, the sights on the PPK/S-1 are next to nothing. Not a problem.)

Please do not let my position on front sight focus and point shooting discourage any response. I am open to any meaningful advise and suggestion. I would really like to solve my P99 problem.

Maybe now it's a matter of ego. Or the grip.

Thanks again
 

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Sniper--

... my eyes and corrective lenses will not accomodate a focus at the distance of the front sight. It's not a matter of practice or control, it's a matter of eye age and decent vision correction. ...

Thanks again
Me too. Last time out, I gave up on getting the front sight in focus. I tried to be mentally focused on it even if it was visually blurry. I need more practice though.
 

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Ok Dave, I will throw in my 2 cents in an attempt to help your shooting accuracy.

Unfortunately you have already given up on one of the most important aspects of marksmanship ??? Front sight Focus.

In my program, I teach that the front sight MUST be in clear focus ???.and you need to do whatever it takes to accomplish this task. Most shooters try and focus on the Target, which is not advisable for ?tired old eyes?. Some young folks can bring their front sight and Target into crystal clear focus at the same time , but this ability quickly fades with age. When this happens ?.only the front sight is the most important of the two in bulls-eye type shooting.

So if you are establishing the proper sight picture ???your front sight should be crystal clear and in focus and the Target should be ?Blurry?. This condition tends to worry new shooters and they will begin to engage in a bad habit called ? Chasing the Target?. What happens with the untrained shooter ???is that his eyes will jump back and forth between the front sight and Target ? trying to get both in focus at the same time. And then there is the student that will even chase the Bullet holes ?.and lift his head off the sight plain to see if he can determine where his bullet [ each one ] has hit. Not a very good habit to get into. Stay Down on the gun until you are done firing the sequence.

Concentration on a clear front sight is paramount ???. Next ? adjust the rear sights to place the front blade where it needs to be within the sight picture and slowly pull the trigger. Taking equal amounts of Light on either side of the front sight blade is very important, but the rear sight blade need not be crystal clear. Again ??.. the front sight is most important in this type of shooting.

Now that you have conquered the front sight focus problem [ hopefully ] ?.you next task is to minimize trigger jerk. Weapons with extremely light SA modes or a great SA trigger pull will actually mask some of your trigger jerk. The gun?s Sear will let the firing pin go before your jerking has time to completely mess up the shot. A combat type weapon like the P-99 doesn?t have that ?light and fast? SA trigger pull like that of a 3 lb. pull on a 1911, so any jerking of the trigger will find its way into your accuracy. Practicing with SNAP CAPS is one of the best ways that I know of : First: determining how bad your jerking is ?if any ?? AND Helping you to over come that jerking of the trigger in response to recoil and noise. Just have someone load your magazine with a few snap caps OR load 2 or 3 magazines yourself and mix them up so you can?t anticipate where the snap caps were loaded. Now fire your P-99 slowly ?.and watch for ANY movement of the pistol when the snap cap is struck. Some people are ?shocked? at how much they jerk down on the weapon.

Hope some of this helps ??

JF.
Some great tips there, don't really have much to offer to the original poster but wanted to thank Sniper for taking the time to post... should help me quite a bit at the range.
 

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I understand and appreciate your advice; However, my eyes and corrective lenses will not accomodate a focus at the distance of the front sight. It's not a matter of practice or control, it's a matter of eye age and decent vision correction. Now---others have suggested that I obtain lenses which allow me to focus on the front sight. Good idea for the range, but I am interested only in re-establishing my defensive skills. So, I must use my "normal" body and it's necessary attachments. Thus comes into play
the point shooting practice and the laser practice. Maybe not a purist's tack, but a reasonable one for me.
I think this is my problem. I have a very hard time with the front sight being clear. I wear unlined bifocals and have a difficult time focusing from the top or bottom on the front sight. Especially if I shoot with both eyes open. I get a clearer picture with one eye shut.

I have my annual eye exam next week and will be buying new glasses. I had a brief discussion this past summer at the optometrist's office when I had my current glasses replaced. They do have someone there who knows at least a little about shooting. I'll consult with them. My dentist precision pistol shoots. Too bad he's not the optometrist. He would know what to do. Although I may ask him for some advice anyway. I see him in a couple of weeks too. I plan to spend some time getting some suggestions for what options I have. I may buy 2 pair of glasses and just transition from one to the other for everyday use and another pair for shooting. Or some such combination.
 

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What happens with the untrained shooter ???is that his eyes will jump back and forth between the front sight and Target ? trying to get both in focus at the same time. And then there is the student that will even chase the Bullet holes ?.and lift his head off the sight plain to see if he can determine where his bullet [ each one ] has hit. Not a very good habit to get into. Stay Down on the gun until you are done firing the sequence.
This is a habit i'm in the process of breaking, so i'll add a +1. Don't look for your shots. In fact, for the moment don't worry too much about aiming. (Wait, stay with me.)

I enjoy throwing steeltip darts. When I was being tutored by an excellent teacher, he taught me in the beginning to not worry about where the first dart went. The important thing was making the 2nd and 3rd darts go to the same place as the first. Every time i threw a followup, he'd be saying "hit the dart."

This was great advice, as it taught my arm and my eyes to work consistently from throw-to-throw, instead of overcorrecting each time and following the shot around. Eventually, my control of the throw developed and i learned to aim with much better results - but this was BECAUSE i had trained my arm to consistently do the same motion.

A couple weeks ago, I stopped looking at the holes every time. First shot was a couple inches to the left, but i just thought "to hit that hole, don't look at it. Just do the same motion again". Rinse, repeat. My groups were tighter than ever.

If you can get your first shot close to the (X), then much of the remaining work isn't seeing each bullet on it's way to the target. It's just making your hand and arm and fingers repeat that same action.

It's a bit esoteric advice, but hope it helps. :)

thorn
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I will visit a range Friday. I will take the P99 and the PPK/S-1. I point shoot the little one very well and maybe it will get me into concentrating with the P99.

I've been thinking about "chasing the bullet holes" and that may well be part of my situation with the P99. We'll see. I appreciate the explanation and advice.

I noticed that Colt is offering a "New" Agent without traditional sights. All it has is a "trench" in the slide. The trench is meant as a guide to aid in point shooting. I would really like to fondle one and see just what the trench would do for my eyes. The picture I saw had the slide in natural stainless and the trench base in black. Clever idea, I think.

I have not given up and you all have provided me with good thoughts and support. Thanks
 
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