I own a very early/mid 1930, first variation Walther PP serial number 752,682 with appropriate design features including: C/N, split firing pin, heavy hammer without grove, deep safety well and fat safety, black cross-X supported grips, no chambered round indicator, etc. In addition the frame has a marking I am not certain of. The tang has a rectangular cut out on its upper surface to receive, or at least face, the rear action of the hammer. On the center flat surface of that tang well is an icon that vaguely resembles a crown consisting of three vertical, rabbit-ear shaped fronds on top of a ring. I do not believe I have seen other PP/PPK's with this marking and wonder if it is a factory inspector's mark, a local proof house mark, or a subcontractor's mark who might have initially supplied frames to Walther in 1929 as PP production was initiated. Has anyone seen a similar mark and, if so, on what years, serial numbers, and variations.
Marking on Early 1930 PP Tang Well (Frame)
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Do Gunsmith Marks Indicate Guns Returned to the Factory?
I am checking with other owners of 1930 guns. If your theory is true it might suggest that certain guns were returned to the factory for repairs, which wouldn't be unusual in the first year of production, and so marked by the gunsmith. Any one with information supporting this theory??
I am checking with other owners of 1930 guns. If your theory is true it might suggest that certain guns were returned to the factory for repairs, which wouldn't be unusual in the first year of production, and so marked by the gunsmith. Any one with information supporting this theory??
Walther Tang Markings
Walther collecting never ceases to amaze! I don't recall these markings noted in reference sources. In addition to determining their meaning it would also be informative to determine when these disappeared. Has anyone seen tang well markings in later (>1930) Walters of any kind?
Walther collecting never ceases to amaze! I don't recall these markings noted in reference sources. In addition to determining their meaning it would also be informative to determine when these disappeared. Has anyone seen tang well markings in later (>1930) Walters of any kind?
Of course there is the single punch mark in the tang well for the S&W pistols that have had the recall work completed.
Holy Roman Empire Crown, Or Kaiser Crown
I believe I deduced what the tang well mark represents, but do not know how it was used and by whom. The mark is a symbolic representation of what was originally the Imperial Crown of the Holy Roman Empire, or more specifically that of Charles VII, Holy Roman Emperor. The former was later adopted in the coat of arms of the German Empire from 1871 – 1918 by the Second Reich as the German State Crown representing the Kaisers, German Emperors and Kings of Prussia. The Weimar Republic dropped all reference to the crown in its coat of arms. The reason I am fairly certain of the mark’s meaning is that they are the only royal crowns that have three flat plates with rounded tops on an octagonal base. In fact, a flower is named after the Charles VII crown called the “Kaiser’s Crown” which looks like an upside-down version of this tang mark.
This Walther pistol was produced in 1930 during the Weimar Republic, a time when other symbols of Imperial Germany were still in use, like Crown/N, which lasted until 1939. Imperial war hero von Hindenburg was President of Germany in 1930. The legacy of the Holy Roman Empire was a part of the right-wing elements in Weimar. The mark does not appear on all 1929-1930 Walther PP’s, nor does it appear on later Walther pistols as far as I know. Rumor has it that other tang marks may exist in this same position in this period.
Another fact to consider is that the Weimer government passed a sweeping gun law in October, 1928 that went into effect in mid-1929 and liberalized, but regulated, gun ownership. The effect of this law was to federalize individual gun permits and ownership and regulate gun manufacturers. Hitler became Chancellor in January, 1933 so from mid-1929-1932 gun ownership was on a different footing than the preceding and later eras of Weimar and Nazi Germany during which strict gun control was imposed. This is exactly the period during which the initial variations of the new Walther Model PP were launched (late 1929-1932). Could it be that the new federal gun law somehow briefly influenced how Walther marked guns during this period?
I want to assume that such a mark was not routinely applied at the Walter factory. I also want to assume that this mark serves a State or military function. So, some initial speculations: 1) a military acceptance mark of the German Reichswehr, or the Austrian Army; 2) an Austrian proof mark since Austria was a separate state at the time; 3) a mark of the Bavarian free state that recognizes Charles VII, Holy Roman Emperor, as a Bavarian figure; 4) a Walther compliance mark of some kind, perhaps for reworks.
Anyone who can provide additional perspective is welcome to reply or put forward ideas.
I believe I deduced what the tang well mark represents, but do not know how it was used and by whom. The mark is a symbolic representation of what was originally the Imperial Crown of the Holy Roman Empire, or more specifically that of Charles VII, Holy Roman Emperor. The former was later adopted in the coat of arms of the German Empire from 1871 – 1918 by the Second Reich as the German State Crown representing the Kaisers, German Emperors and Kings of Prussia. The Weimar Republic dropped all reference to the crown in its coat of arms. The reason I am fairly certain of the mark’s meaning is that they are the only royal crowns that have three flat plates with rounded tops on an octagonal base. In fact, a flower is named after the Charles VII crown called the “Kaiser’s Crown” which looks like an upside-down version of this tang mark.
This Walther pistol was produced in 1930 during the Weimar Republic, a time when other symbols of Imperial Germany were still in use, like Crown/N, which lasted until 1939. Imperial war hero von Hindenburg was President of Germany in 1930. The legacy of the Holy Roman Empire was a part of the right-wing elements in Weimar. The mark does not appear on all 1929-1930 Walther PP’s, nor does it appear on later Walther pistols as far as I know. Rumor has it that other tang marks may exist in this same position in this period.
Another fact to consider is that the Weimer government passed a sweeping gun law in October, 1928 that went into effect in mid-1929 and liberalized, but regulated, gun ownership. The effect of this law was to federalize individual gun permits and ownership and regulate gun manufacturers. Hitler became Chancellor in January, 1933 so from mid-1929-1932 gun ownership was on a different footing than the preceding and later eras of Weimar and Nazi Germany during which strict gun control was imposed. This is exactly the period during which the initial variations of the new Walther Model PP were launched (late 1929-1932). Could it be that the new federal gun law somehow briefly influenced how Walther marked guns during this period?
I want to assume that such a mark was not routinely applied at the Walter factory. I also want to assume that this mark serves a State or military function. So, some initial speculations: 1) a military acceptance mark of the German Reichswehr, or the Austrian Army; 2) an Austrian proof mark since Austria was a separate state at the time; 3) a mark of the Bavarian free state that recognizes Charles VII, Holy Roman Emperor, as a Bavarian figure; 4) a Walther compliance mark of some kind, perhaps for reworks.
Anyone who can provide additional perspective is welcome to reply or put forward ideas.
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ALL of my PP's are marked in the tang well...Pre-war Commercial and wartime manufacture. None are the same. This would suggest that they are not production returns, but an inspection or Smith's stamp.
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