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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Picked up this P1 at a gunshow today for 400.00.Saw a lot of German P1s for 450.00 to 600.00 but only one Manurin.Very light Interarms import mark on slide.Any idea of when it was made?Seems to be in great cond.no box and one mag,any info appreciated.
 

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Your P-1 was made between 1959 and 1962. It has the Berlin “daisy” . It was issued to the Berlin Police. It was made by the French Manurhin co. This was peculiar to Berlin because Police could not be issued German made side arms due to Four Powers agreement. So your P-1 was made in France outside of Germany.


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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Thanks Redcat!I took a chance on it,thought it was a jewel,the only one at the show of 500 tables.Lots of other german p1s though.Does the mag look correct,there is no Walther logo on it.You have to have the gun in the right light to see the Interarms marking,blends in,didnt see it until I got it home,never seen an import mark that light,maybe a good thing.ha Bore is mint looks hardly used.
 

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Does the mag look correct,there is no Walther logo on it.
It has a nicer polish and deeper stamp than any of my surplus P1 Bundeswehr magazines. Is there a date stamp on the spine ?


You have to have the gun in the right light to see the Interarms marking,blends in,didnt see it until I got it home,never seen an import mark that light,maybe a good thing.
I've actually come to like import marks. For example I have a Walther PP Sport import marked when it was sold in Sweden and again when it came to the US. Kind of like stamps in a passport.
 

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That is a good price for a nice pistol. The Manurhin pistols tend to fly under the radar, even among a lot of Walther collectors. Some of my nicest Walthers are Manurhin ;)
 

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Your P-1 was made between 1959 and 1962. It has the Berlin “daisy” . It was issued to the Berlin Police. It was made by the French Manurhin co. This was peculiar to Berlin because Police could not be issued German made side arms due to Four Powers agreement. So your P-1 was made in France outside of Germany.
A few slight corrections:

Your P1 was made in Ulm/Germany like all P38/P1s. For the reasons explained, they were shipped to Manurhin to be assembled, stamped, finished, and proofed in France, in an ironic reversal of the procedure with the PP/PPK series.

The West Berlin police adopted the P1 in 1963. The specimen in their historical collection, #239725, is documented as entering service in March 1964, so yours likely dates a few months before that.

The crossed cannon stamp on the right side of the slide indicates that it reportedly belonged to a re-purposed Portuguese military contract. Details are murky.

http://www.phs-berlin.de/index.php/waffe/standardbewaffnung/item/p1-manurhin
 

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A
The crossed cannon stamp on the right side of the slide indicates that it reportedly belonged to a re-purposed Portuguese military contract. Details are murky.
These seem to be the norm for the Manurhin P1. I have always wondered how so many were produced then seemingly not sold or accepted.
 

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These seem to be the norm for the Manurhin P1. I have always wondered how so many were produced then seemingly not sold or accepted.
It's not even clear where the stamps were applied. So all we have is creative speculation.

However, since the Portuguese armed forces and police have used not just the Walther P38, but also other West German-branded weapons from SIG and HK, Portugal was never in need of the "Manurhin dodge" like West Berlin.

That makes it most likely that Walther/Ulm had the whole batch of slides already stamped for a contract which was then cancelled for whatever reasons.

Since the Bundeswehr might balk at getting pistols with foreign military markings, someone at Ulm figured they could be included in the parts shipment to Mulhouse since, with all the French stampings about to be inflicted on the slides, who'd notice the extra crossed cannons? ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Thanks Absalom appreciate the info!I agree they are better looking than the regular P1s.Love the fire blue frame,but hard to photograph,looks better in hand.The hex pin on the later P1s is probably a great idea for strength if you are shooting it a lot but kind of spoils the look for me.Will use milder Winchester white box ammo,dont think I will have a problem.JMO
 

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This is great news. I just purchased one with a serial number of 237374 with the exact same markings. It’s in excellent condition with holster and 2 mags, also with same markings. This thread answered a lot of questions. Thanks a lot.
 

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...

I've actually come to like import marks. For example I have a Walther PP Sport import marked when it was sold in Sweden and again when it came to the US. Kind of like stamps in a passport.
Concur. Some collectors, often stimulated by the opinions of others, are horrified. But I personally don't object to import markings if they are tastefully and skillfully applied. Of course some are unevenly or crookedly stamped, or one wishes they had been stamped in a different location. But by and large I count that as a minor factor in the value of most guns, especially commonplace guns that do not command prices in 4 or 5 figures, where it makes little or no difference.

In recent years the use of dot-matrix machines has added an unwelcome dimension: widespread desecration from poor procedures. To cut labor and handling costs importers try to speed up the marking process and extend the life of the marking stylus by reducing the number of dots, which makes the characters look like they were written by a drunken woodpecker. It also means increasing the size of the characters to make them readable, thus producing "billboards" where there should be a clean, unmarked surface.

Nonetheless: if correctly identified and interpreted, import marks reveal a great deal about the individual history of the gun, and answer many of the questions that their new owners routinely come here to ask. Some questions cannot be definitively answered unless an import mark is found.

M
 

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It's not even clear where the stamps were applied. So all we have is creative speculation.

...

Agreed. The rest all sounds like reverse induction.

Maybe they were to be sold to Portugal by Manurhin, not Walther?

And if the crossed cannons were acceptance marks, why would they be applied to slides before they were even roll-marked and heat-treated?

Or maybe the marking is not really Portuguese?

M
 
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