[michaelpri]

I am still trying to decide between the Interarms PPk that looks to be new (325.00) or a ppk/s (S&W) that seems to be slightly ?? newer for 499.99 vs brand new for 549.00 or the Bersa CC for 269.00.

Would you buy a Interarms PPK? What is the real difference> They were in two different places sop I canniot hold and compare.

I am sceptable about the reliability problems that I hear about on these sites as well as the "bite". I have relatively small hands and would like to use potentially for pocket carry. But should the need arise, I don't need top think about I am gripping the weapon.

Are these Interarms PPK good guns? I don't know how opkd it is the serial number is A083281.

Thanks for your help in this decision.

 

[David the Gnome]

I'd take the Interarms PPK, I think they're more desireable. People tend to like them better because they weren't modified like the S&W made PPKs.

 

[searcher451]

I think that the Gnome is correct (again), although I own
both the Interarms and the S&W versions and love them
both. I would not consider the Bersa, but that's a personal
choice only. Few things in life top a well-made Walther.

 

[153]

Grab the Interarms Walther and don't look back!

The S&W version seems to vary in quality from horrible to real good with alot in between. It's only advantage is the extended beavertail, and while a practical modification makes this beautiful pistol into "the dog faced boy".

Buy the Interarms, if you find the slide chews your hand up in recoil, invest in a nice set of aftermarket grips and that should take care of any problems you might possibly have.

Good Luck!

 

[michaelpri]

I really appreciate some of your replys.

Can you tell me the difference between the PPK and the PPK/s?

Also, how do I tell how old this is or where it was manufactured?

Anything specific to look for in these as a used gun?

 

[153]

Try a search, there is another thread with comparison photos and all!!

Even if you don't search there aren't that many threads to look through.

In short.........

PPK/S has a steel backstrap and is about 1/4 " longer than the PPK and a bit heavier. If your shooting it, buy the PPK/S, if your carrying it buy the PPK/S and use the magazine with the flat bottom.

 

[David the Gnome]

I really appreciate some of your replys.

Can you tell me the difference between the PPK and the PPK/s?

Also, how do I tell how old this is or where it was manufactured?

Anything specific to look for in these as a used gun?

The only real difference is that the PPK/S uses the frame from a PP (and has a longer grip as a result) and it has an exposed frame on the rear of the gun. The PPK is slightly smaller with a wrap around grip.

Here's a picture that will show you the difference in sizes.

http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/4152/waltherppkflipsmallob0.jpg

The gun will say on the right side where it was made if it was made in the US. If it was a true German import it would be made in France and have no "Under License Of" or "Made by Interams/Smith & Wesson".

I'll let someone else chime in on used gun buying procedure.

 

[Deputy]

Before you shell out the cash, you might want to check my thread here. Make sure the Walther is what you really want/need:


http://www.waltherforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=5815

Dave, 153, and Searcher are all correct and you can't go wrong consulting them.

Reliability is more an ammo selection situation than anything inherently wrong with the guns. The PP/PPK/PPKs are actually among the most reliable pistols of their type.

The felt recoil can be reduced with different grips and MAYBE with a stiffer recoil spring, although spring changes have to be tested with the ammo you use. A gun this size with basically the same design as when it was first made 75 years ago is gonna have some snap to it. After all, these aren't .22 rounds you're shooting

Dep



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[michaelpri]

thank you for the responses. I guess now I am really confused between the PPk, used PPK/s, new PPK/s or the Bersa CC.

Does anyone know if there is a phone number or way to contact Walther (prior yo S&W) or Interarms to try to determine the age of the PPK that I am looking at?

Thank you in advance

 

[Deputy]

Here are pics of the PPKs and PPK. The slides are identical. Look closely at the grips and back of the grip. You can see the differences there.

I don't know anything about the Bersa



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[mm6mm6]

I would recommend ONLY the PPK. And I would jump on the Interarms version. The price is right and the Interarms guns are becoming very desirable (rising prices) due to their excellent reliability and workmanship. The new S&W made versions have had many reliability problems and I don't think their totally worked out yet.

The PPK is still the original and best double action pocket pistol ever made.
The PPK/S is a compromise gun made to get around the 1968 Gun Control Act which forbid the importation of guns under a specified size. The mating of a PPK slide/barrel with a PP frame created a larger gun (called the PPK/S) that could be imported.

The PPK/S is considerably heavier than a PPK due to the solid steel backstrap instead of the PPK's cutaway version that has wrap around plastic grips.

Also, the PPK/S frame is 1/4" longer right where it counts when trying to conceal a handgun. The bottom of the grip area that "prints" on your shirt and gives away the fact that you're carrying a gun.

The PPK conceals much better.

I own a WWII .32 PPK, a 1966 W. German .380 PPK, a stainless Interarms .380 PPK and a PP Sport .22 with 6" barrel.

I love them all but the .380 PPK's are the best. I just don't see the point in owning a PPK/S. Unless it was really, really cheap or I wasn't going to carry it.

-Steve

 

[michaelpri]

you sound like a believer to me.

How do I tell what to look for, if issues can be spotted.

I have no idea what may have been changed or replaced if anything. Or what might have been an original issue (problem) to look for.

Is the "bite" that people refer to from the recoil or the potential cut from the slide coming back? I certainly am not crazy about a gun attacking me.

Was there two different addresses that Interarms put on these or just one?

Is there a way to contact Interarms? I am just guessing that S&W will not honor the Interarms lifetime warranty.

Sorry for all of the questions, it may not be a great deal of money to some, but I like to feel confident that it is the right way to go when I put the money down-- as opposed to just buying someone elses nightmare.

Yes, I could buy new but ?????????????

Thanks

 

[michaelpri]

I forgot to mention that the place that has tyhe PPK, when I looked at it it seemed really gummed up inside, so they took the grips off and were going to "put it in a tank of cleaner" of some sort and let it sit for 30 min. I need to stop back. Can this harm the gun?

Thanks

 

[mm6mm6]

Any "Made In USA" Interarms gun should be fine, blue or stainless. I remember when they first started making them here and the actual German Walther representatives gave their official stamp of approval to begin production after touring the plant and inspecting the guns. Walther said the guns were as good if not better than the West German made guns.

Most used guns have to be "abused" to have something wrong with them. If you simply work the action and try the DA and SA trigger pulls (never snapping the hammer, but feeling the trigger action) and be sure the safety/hammer drop works and the rear sight is tight, you should be good. A PPK disassembles in about a half second so you can usually ask to remove the slide to inspect inside the gun and look through the barrel.

The "bite" people refer to is the slide coming back when the action cycles and the web of the shooting had is really high or really "meaty." The slide will cause a slight abrasion. Not really a cut but a little blood is possible. I'm trying to be as honest as possible. When I qualify with my PPK (50 rounds total) I would say 50% of the time I get a little abrasion. Another Range Officer and I joke about it because he has a PPK too (and a PPK/S which he hates because of the extra weight and grip length). "Did you get bit?" we ask each other. During the actual shooting, we are concentrating on our sight picture and trigger pull so much that we don't know if we got bit until we're all done. It seems that if I "plink" with the gun, I never get bit. If I am trying hard to shoot well and qualify with 50 rounds, it seems I hold the gun a bit tighter and harder and I sometimes get bit. So in reality, you might get bit if you are trying to save your own life in a gunfight and in that case it really won't matter and you'll probably not even notice it.

I think the button magazine release gives the PPK a huge advantage over numerous other .380 pocket pistols with heel magazine releases. I find that the Walther PPK fits my hand ergonomically better than ever other gun out there. I really like the SA pull and the DA is very smooth despite being heavy (but it's supposed to be heavy in DA). But that is also a very, very subjective thing that applies to me. I tell people who ask about guns that as long as the gun fires 99.9999999% of the time (no gun is 100%, not even a revolver) and it hits where you aim it, it's a good choice IF YOU LIKE IT! Guns are like cars. Very subjective. Every car gets you from point A to point B. How many people that you know or work with drive the same car? Some cars have a reliability reputation that makes you not want one. Some people are Ford or Toyota or Chevy or Honda or BMW people and that's it. Some people are Colt or S&W or Ruger or Walther people and that's it.

The thing that I can't stand is this: Any gun sold on the market today should fire 99.9% and accurately to point of aim right out of the box. The concept of "breaking in" a gun before it will shoot with misfires is absurd in this day and age. Can you imagine if Glock or Sig or Beretta or S&W or Ruger said it took 200 rounds to "break in" their gun before you could bet your life on it?

I was shocked to read a review of the S&W/Walther PPK/S in Law & Order magazine that said the gun failed to feed and failed to eject numerous times until is was "broken in" with 200+ rounds! That's insane!

I've carried my stainless Interarms PPK for 19 years without a single malfunction of any kind, qualifying with it at least once a year. I always clean it after firing it and keep it lightly oiled. I know the limitations of the Winchester Silvertip .380's I carry.

I hope this helps!

you sound like a believer to me.

How do I tell what to look for, if issues can be spotted.

I have no idea what may have been changed or replaced if anything. Or what might have been an original issue (problem) to look for.

Is the "bite" that people refer to from the recoil or the potential cut from the slide coming back? I certainly am not crazy about a gun attacking me.

Was there two different addresses that Interarms put on these or just one?

Is there a way to contact Interarms? I am just guessing that S&W will not honor the Interarms lifetime warranty.

Sorry for all of the questions, it may not be a great deal of money to some, but I like to feel confident that it is the right way to go when I put the money down-- as opposed to just buying someone elses nightmare.

Yes, I could buy new but ?????????????

Thanks

 

[Deputy]

One thing to be aware of...AFAIK, the Interarms guns are NOT being worked on by S&W. So if you run into a problem, you're on your own. S&W stands behind all their products, so I have no worry that if mine has problems they will be fixed.

Actually, guns being broken in is NOT unusual even in this day and age. Some guns are built to tighter tolerances than others. Hence the need for a break-in period. Some of the most expensive target guns don't get reliable until 200-500 rounds. It all depends on how they were constructed. And used guns are ALWAYS a gamble unless you know the person who previously owned it and know if he modified it or how well he took care of it and if it ever malfunctioned. Just looking at a gun won't tell you squat. Buying a used gun is like buying a used car all right. Think about it...why do YOU trade in a car? Usually because things are starting to go wrong with it and you don't want to spend the cash to fix it. Guns are usually traded in because they are either worn out or not reliable or both.

Dep



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[mm6mm6]

I repectfully disagree with the concept that guns are "usually" traded in because they are worn out or unreliable or both.

In my family, we have bought so many used guns that I can't even keep track of how many there have been. I have never bought a gun that had a problem I didn't discover when handling the gun. And there were only two guns that had problems...but I knew what they were.

Guns are not like cars in that the majority of people buy a gun, shoot it once and then put it away. If stored properly, most guns are in perfect condition decades later. I've bought 100 year old guns that function flawlessly. Gun owners buy guns, try them, use them, shoot them and then tire of them and sell or trade them to buy something else. So many people I know switch guns all the time. One guy I know at work carried a S&W .357, then a Sig, then a Glock, then a 1911, then another Sig because he bought a stainless version with a rail...omigosh, gun owners are a whole different breed. If a car owner was like a gun owner, the cars a person drove for only six months before he tired of it and bought another car would be a great deal! All of the "gun guys" I know buy and sell guns all the time. Their collections are not stagnant, but constantly evolving. I'm the same way. I've sold stuff that is perfect because I no longer needed it. I used to plink at my parents' cabin in Wisconsin. When they sold the cabin and I lost my outdoor plinking range, I sold off a bunch of the guns I used to love shooting there. I had no need for them anymore and my tastes and situation changed. I wanted to get my PPK engraved so I sold some other guns to pay for the engraving. There was nothing wrong with the other guns.

I understand also that tight tolerance target guns may require a break in period. But I'm talking about an off the shelf combat gun used to save your life like a PPK. I can't even imagine Glock saying that they don't back their gun's reliability until the owner puts 200 rounds through it. That gun is designed to function no matter what right out of the box. As are most combat guns sold today. Again, most people who buy a gun for the first time don't go to the range on a regular basis.

One thing to be aware of...AFAIK, the Interarms guns are NOT being worked on by S&W. So if you run into a problem, you're on your own. S&W stands behind all their products, so I have no worry that if mine has problems they will be fixed.

Actually, guns being broken in is NOT unusual even in this day and age. Some guns are built to tighter tolerances than others. Hence the need for a break-in period. Some of the most expensive target guns don't get reliable until 200-500 rounds. It all depends on how they were constructed. And used guns are ALWAYS a gamble unless you know the person who previously owned it and know if he modified it or how well he took care of it and if it ever malfunctioned. Just looking at a gun won't tell you squat. Buying a used gun is like buying a used car all right. Think about it...why do YOU trade in a car? Usually because things are starting to go wrong with it and you don't want to spend the cash to fix it. Guns are usually traded in because they are either worn out or not reliable or both.

 

[mm6mm6]

Michaelpri: I just ran across this on the S&W Forum from a guy shooting a snubnosed .38 - "I started shooting at a distance of 20 feet. I was shooting 130 grain Remington UMC loads. My first shots brought a surprise of recoil to me. I have very large hands and am a big guy (6'4" 240 pounds) and even at that, I had a handful. I made the "rookie mistake" I'm sure, by placing my grip on the gun that allowed my right thumb to get boogered up by the cylinder release button. 5 rounds maintaining this grip had me bleeding and forced me to change my grip and put on shooting gloves. "

So it's not just the Walther than can make ya bleed!

 

[MGMike]

From all the vociferlous complaints of hammer bite or slide cutting, one would imagine that this is an invariable result, and that it is practically impossible to shoot a Walther PP series pistol, or an M1911-style .45 , without injury unless it has a beavertail tang to protect one's hand.

This scares off a lot of prospective shooters, who understandably don't want to be mangled. But in fact whether one gets bitten depends entirely on the size and shape of one's hands, and his manner of taking a grip. I don't think there is anything unusual about my own, but after nearly 50 years of shooting .45 autos and literally scores of PP-series Walthers of all models and calibers, I have NEVER been bitten by ANY of them. Even the little TPH leaves no marks on my hand. Yet I have seen a few people who simply cannot take a grip without the flesh from the web of their hand rolling up over the tang.

I'm not sure what the solution is, but the problem is not universal.

M

 

[Deputy]

From all the vociferlous complaints of hammer bite or slide cutting, one would imagine that this is an invariable result, and that it is practically impossible to shoot a Walther PP series pistol, or an M1911-style .45 , without injury unless it has a beavertail tang to protect one's hand.

This scares off a lot of prospective shooters, who understandably don't want to be mangled. But in fact whether one gets bitten depends entirely on the size and shape of one's hands, and his manner of taking a grip. I don't think there is anything unusual about my own, but after nearly 50 years of shooting .45 autos and literally scores of PP-series Walthers of all models and calibers, I have NEVER been bitten by ANY of them. Even the little TPH leaves no marks on my hand. Yet I have seen a few people who simply cannot take a grip without the flesh from the web of their hand rolling up over the tang.

I'm not sure what the solution is, but the problem is not universal.

M

Thank you Mike!!! I agree 100%. I think this hammer bite/grip bite thing is blown WAY out of proportion. First off NOBODY is "married" to the factory grips. The Walthers have a LOT of replacement grips available that should solve most of these "bite" problems, if they exist at all. I guess almost nobody read my post about "gripes about gripes", but guns like the Walther are made to be "CARRIED DAILY AND SHOT RARELY". If you are shooting the Walther so much that you are experiencing hammer/grip bite, then you are probably shooting it WAY MORE than what it should be shot. The Walthers are NOT made as "plinkers" or "range guns". They are designed as last resort self-defense weapons, not a "combat gun", and any use other than protecting yourself or testing functionality and reliability of the ammo/weapon is not needed or desired. Seems like some folks want to make the Walther into some kind of "do-all" pistol and that just ain't gonna work.

I love these comparisons with the Glock. Fer Chrisakes the Glock is a MILITARY weapon made to function under all kinds of adverse conditions including shooting underwater. Comparing it to a Walther is like comparing a tank to a 4-wheel ATV.

As to buying used guns and having them all be in perfect operating condition...sounds like someone hasn't bought many firearms. When I had my FFL I had FACTORY NEW guns that came in defective and had to be shipped back. And they were from all the major manufacturers. Think the Glock is so perfect? Do a Google search for the words Glock and KABOOM. That should provide for some interesting reading

Dep



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[michaelpri]

Thank you all again.

I looked at the PPK again this morning. It appears that the beavertail is very very small compared to the newer S&W. I was actually suprised by the difference.

Also, I noted that it said Alexandria, Virginia on the right side. And there was no markings at all on the barrel except for what looked like part of possibly a "W". Hard to tell.

It did not have a .380 or numbers or anything on the barrel. This confused me from what I have seen on the others that I have seen pictures of.

I am not sure if this denotes any potential age or anything. When taken down, the spring over the barrell did not come out, but then I didnt pull on it either.

Not sure if I should't just let this one go.