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Discussion Starter #1
Since the CCP has a manual safety I was wondering if owners think the CCP would be better served with a shorter trigger reset. On one hand a long reset/long trigger pull can sometimes offer a better mechanical advantage, less trigger pull required but since the trigger on the CCP plays no part in pressing the striker rearward once cocked I was wondering if the trigger pull and reset distance could be changed. This would likely be changed at the point of the trigger bar connection with the cylinder. This is not a DA/SA pistol, it is a striker fired pistol where the striker should be cocked after each shot....so, why the long trigger?

Any ideas? Would anyone like a shorter reset or is all good? M1911
 

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Would anyone like a shorter reset or is all good? M1911
Leave it the same and get rid of the safety, OR, a shorter reset would be nice if mechanically possible with this design. You know of course asking a question like this ... "would you like More beer or Pizza or not" ... will get you a lot of folks on your side you tricky one...:)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
HaHa....things are slow around the old gun forum Wildbill45....gotta come up with something to start the week. The trigger assembly on the CCP does have to rotate the cylinder which performs two functions....disengages the drop safety and then lowers the sear to release the striker. Will shorter movement accomplish this, is it possible? I note that the CCP serial numbers reported here have now passed 20,000.

I like to think of these things from a mechanical perspective. As you know the right side spring loaded bolt (plunger) attempts to keep the trigger bar in a position to engage the cylinder at all times except two. When the slide is not fully forward it disconnects the trigger bar. Obviously this is needed to prevent full auto and to prevent any out of battery striker releases. The other is when the manual safety overrides the small plunger and physically presses the trigger bar down and away from the cylinder.

I don't have a Glock either but on that pistol I think I see that the trigger actually presses the striker rearward just a bit before releasing. The CCP doesn't.....so....it would seem a small matter to reshape the rear of the trigger bar so that it pops up earlier to reset. Of course.....this might not allow the cylinder to be rotated enough to perform the connector disconnect/sear release functions the it must perform. I like to think on these small details almost as much as shooting.

Made the rounds yesterday. Didn't see a CCP but ammo is plentiful around these parts, finally. If you guys aren't replenishing your supplies I think you might consider it before the next media driven catastrophe rears its ugly head. There are so many options on .32, .380, 9mm, .40 etc. that I have to get out the calculator to figure out the best deal. Some of the 250/500 round bulk packs are more per round than buying 50 or 100 round boxes. M1911
 

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I'm not sure what a manual safety and shorter trigger reset have to do with one another. By definition a trigger reset happens after a round is fired, hence the safety is already off. Perhaps you meant a shorter trigger take up (on the first round) before the striker is released?
 

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Unless I'm missing something I don't think there's any way to modify the trigger pull or reset distances on this gun. The rotating cylinder that lifts the sear and connector basically dictates both. It takes x-degrees of rotation to lift the sear and connector, which translates into the how far the trigger bar has to move forward when firing and backward when it "resets," which is basically when the trigger bar hook slides back onto the cylinder handle. I guess if you could fabricate a lever gizmo to replace the trigger side plates that would somehow move the trigger bar faster than the trigger itself it would change pull/reset distance, but it makes my head hurt to think how that would work. :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
CATI, your comments clarify my intent. Permanently shortening pre-travel is a whole nother issue. But when shooting you can control how far you let the trigger forward....unless the pistol basically requires that the trigger be allowed to move almost all the way forward to reset. Some of the other Walthers, take a P99 AS for example allow a very short reset.....or you can let the trigger go all the way forward.

I'm wondering about shortening the reset. GP1935 is on the trail....he just doesn't have enough bricks and old files and steel parts laying around to file new parts out of. Then I don't have a CCP to install said part in. But, a little filing here and a little filing there can change the entire amount of movement required to make the drop safety disengage and the sear release.

For example....and I am not suggesting that anyone do this....if I shorten the striker hook....the sear will release earlier with less cylinder rotation. If I lower the working end of the sear....same thing. Of course, change one part and you many times change something else. For example, if I were to change the hook or sear above.......would the timing of the connector/safety be off? Probably, but would there be a problem? Don't know, but I expect it can all be changed if you think it through, have several sets of spare parts and aren't working on a rare WWII pistol.

I've been thinking about the drop safety. Why have the catch when the slide is retracted with a cocked striker. It seems simple enough, unless I'm missing some other reason for the design, to put on a wider foot or a longer rail on the right side of the system housing so that the drop safety is disconnected almost immediately when the slide is retracted and before the inner safety shoulder has a chance to engage and pull the striker rearward only to quickly release it again. This is all happening with an almost solid striker spring. Or, while I'm at it....why not remove a little material from the shoulder of the safety or the striker where the safety engages it so that the pistol has just enough time to lift the safety before pulling the cocked striker rearward. Someone let me borrow your pistol and I'll find out. When I have time for deep gun thoughts...:D, these are the kinds of things I like to ponder. I can hear Mike's thoughts all the way down here in Alabama...:p

When I find one of these at a good price I will probably get one just to fool around with it. I'll have $350 worth of fun and waste $50,000 worth of time. But.....that dang guitar playing has never earned any money either.

Here is another question....how smoothly does the slide disconnect the trigger bar when retracting the slide? So smooth you can't feel it or otherwise? M1911
 

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In regard to all the wizardry of the internals of a striker fired pistol, I recall one specific question that Johnny Carson, legendary 'The Tonight Night Show' host, asked Buddy Rich ... best drummer ever ... "Can you twirl your drum sticks like Charlie Watts (Rolling Stones)?"
Buddy looked at Johnny and replied, NO, but I can play!"

Hence where I come in in the pistol conversation, "I can play!"
 

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Here is another question....how smoothly does the slide disconnect the trigger bar when retracting the slide? So smooth you can't feel it or otherwise? M1911
Without the springs you can feel it, but the bar doesn't exert much resistance. What are you thinking?

I'm not sure what a manual safety and shorter trigger reset have to do with one another.
I think 1911 is likening the long pull/reset on the CCP to a DA revolver. No need for a safety on DA revolvers.

Wildbill, that Buddy Rich quote is hilarious. :)

BTW you can remove the safety lever on the CCP pretty easily by turning it partway and pulling it out. It'll leave a hole but won't affect function. Just be sure to remove the little plunger so it doesn't fall out and get lost. Spring will rattle around but it's too long to fall out. Or you can just not use the safety.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'm just suggesting something we can think and talk about. Walther is listening....perhaps we can come up with something they will think about. This isn't a DA pistol, we are essentially discussing a SA, cocked hammer (striker) pistol here. A long pull is generally regarded a design for safety and pull geometry reasons. If the striker fails to cock...the trigger is dead anyway. With the striker cocked....I'm not really seeing the need for a long pull except in the geometry of the cylinder and levers.

Shortening reset would involve fewer changes (by the owner?????) but if the trigger resets quicker then pre travel could also be a permanent change....just as soon as someone can figure how to accomplish it. I'm betting you will see some aftermarket parts to do exactly this if the CCP ever gets straightened out enough to be 100% reliable and I mean all of them. Until then, Walther needs to fine tune the pistol for reliability. That doesn't stop us for thinking out loud about other options we might like to see added to the pistol. To some the existing trigger function and travel is OK I'm sure. M1911
 

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Personally the trigger take-up doesn't bother me, but I wouldn't mind a shorter reset. I just don't see any way to get that with this cylinder design they chose to use. Maybe if the trigger fulcrum point were lower so that it took less trigger movement to make the trigger bar move the necessary distance or something. I haven't torn into the trigger assembly to see if that's even feasible (sorta doubt it). Other than that, all I can think of is to redesign the cylinder-to-trigger bar link somehow. Maybe with a little gear on the end of the cylinder and gear teeth on the top of the trigger bar. But that would probably increase trigger pull weight.

Anyway, I'm okay with the trigger now that I got the grit out. It is what it is.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Send me your pistol.....:D...I've got some hungry files just drooling at the though of chewing into a soft on the outside, crunchy in the middle, CCP.. M1911
 

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Well if Walther is listening, and you are suggesting that they make some changes, then they need to give us all the pistol that we were hoping for- the ergonomics of the CCP, with the trigger of a PPQ. It would be even better if they could keep the delayed blowback, cause it is way more accurate than a locked breech. I would even vote to keep the manual safety, or I am good with a trigger safety.

That gun (a compact PPQ) would sell! It would instantly become the top seller in a market full of also rans...
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The safety on all the CCPs I've handled moves too easily in both directions and the lever is on the wrong side of the pivot point. I would use the safety myself but I want it to snick, snick, snick where I put it and stay there....not be easily rotated. I'maoldfart can probably swap a PPQ trigger assembly into one. He seems to make a lot of stuff work.

How much rearward of the sear will the striker move? Would a bit longer sear with the face more toward the rear of the pistol....say, 0.010" allow reliable cocking and allow the drop safety to clear the striker as the slide is retracted over a cocked striker? I'll never know until I get one of these....not for shootin', just for measuring and playing with. :) M1911
 

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You could probably drill or file the detents in the safety pretty easily to make it "snickier". :) Pic of safety below.

Just eyeballing it, I'd guess that the striker foot can travel about 1/16th of an inch rearward of the sear. If anything, the sear face should be a smidgen forward (or the striker foot smidgen further back) to make cocking more reliable. I've had weaker ammo not cock the striker because the slide apparently didn't recoil far enough. Probably .02 to .03" would be enough. It looks to me like the drop safety would still hold the striker with that change.

1911M c'mon man, go buy yourself a CCP! You probably spend more on ammo every month than what it'll set you back. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I've been maintaining all along that my policy is to let a new firearm have a year on the market before purchasing one. All of em, not just Walther. The drop safety and possibly other things have already been changed. I'm not sure what improvements can be made by an owner other than the typical spit, polish, breaking a few edges, cleaning and lubing. If the P22 and PK 380 can be used as a guide....look at 10 years or more before Walther slowly adds small improvements to the pistol. There are a couple of very simple things the P22 still needs and it took over ten years to get a thicker slide. How many years of slides cracking and hitting owners in the face should it take before a manufacturer does something about it.

What is the safety drum made of? Hope it isn't polymer. The wall between safe and fire appears pretty thin. M1911
 
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