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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,

I was at a USPSA match today and had some malfunctions that I was hoping you fine people might be able to help me with...

Like an idiot, I switched out my Apex trigger for the Overwatch Precision trigger on my Q5 (polymer) on Friday for a Saturday match, without testing the equipment at the range first. I look forward to posting a review of the differences later, but I should say that everything felt perfect when function checking the trigger in dry fire. The trigger appeared to reset and break perfectly, with no perceivable issues at all...

Fast forward to today, and almost immediately I started getting light primer strikes. I probably had 3 or 4 light primer strikes for each time it actually went bang. Looking at the rounds that didn't go off, all the primers had very weak dimples from the striker. I was shooting from a batch of ammo (Blazer 124gr) that was tested earlier in the week with the Apex trigger, and had zero malfunctions. I have put maybe 30k rounds through this gun without one single malfunction until today, and the only difference was the trigger. I then changed out my striker spring, from the 6lb Wolf Glock striker spring I have always used back to the stock striker spring, and it made no difference at all. The striker itself also did not appear to be damaged in any way.

Someone at the match thought that maybe the striker isn't resetting all the way back, so it doesn't have enough force when the sear is released. Is that possible? Any idea for a fix?

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance for any tips or ideas!
 

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Interesting, I think you have some sort of assembly issue. Is the slide going 100% into battery? Are all your primers flush with the back of the loads? Not really sure how the trigger is impacting this issue but if I were you I would look at how the gun was assembled back after replacing the trigger.

keithwhite100
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Interesting, I think you have some sort of assembly issue. Is the slide going 100% into battery? Are all your primers flush with the back of the loads? Not really sure how the trigger is impacting this issue but if I were you I would look at how the gun was assembled back after replacing the trigger.

keithwhite100
Thanks for the suggestion, I may try to reassemble it and see if that somehow helps. There was a theory on the Enos forum that might be it, and please let me know if this makes sense to you:

I have layered electrical tape inside the trigger guard where the trigger makes contact with the frame to act as an over-travel stop. I have it so that there is virtually zero over-travel, but the sear is still able to release. However, because there is no - or extremely little - over-travel, the trigger bar is unable to move far enough to completely clear the firing pin block. As a result, the firing pin just Barely scrapes by the mostly-but-not-fully cleared firing pin block, reducing its power and giving me light strikes.

If this is the case, then I can easily test this at the range by removing the over-travel stop or the firing pin block. Also, if that's the case, then it's a little concerning that the trigger bar would allow the shot to break without fully disengaging the firing pin block.

Does this theory make sense to you? Someone on Enos said he had a similar issue, and when he removed the over-travel stop it fixed his problem.
 

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Thanks for the suggestion, I may try to reassemble it and see if that somehow helps. There was a theory on the Enos forum that might be it, and please let me know if this makes sense to you:

I have layered electrical tape inside the trigger guard where the trigger makes contact with the frame to act as an over-travel stop. I have it so that there is virtually zero over-travel, but the sear is still able to release. However, because there is no - or extremely little - over-travel, the trigger bar is unable to move far enough to completely clear the firing pin block. As a result, the firing pin just Barely scrapes by the mostly-but-not-fully cleared firing pin block, reducing its power and giving me light strikes.

If this is the case, then I can easily test this at the range by removing the over-travel stop or the firing pin block. Also, if that's the case, then it's a little concerning that the trigger bar would allow the shot to break without fully disengaging the firing pin block.

Does this theory make sense to you? Someone on Enos said he had a similar issue, and when he removed the over-travel stop it fixed his problem.
Not sure it makes sense, you would thing a reset is a reset? I have a stop on my guns but I put a stop block behind the trigger frame against the firing housing, see attached picture. What I found out on the OWP trigger is that the reset is minimal and does not really need the stop, remove the tape first. toss it.
Walther reset stop.jpg
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks keithwhite, I will try removing the tape and test it at the range, hopefully tomorrow, then report back.
 

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Errrrrr, that
I have layered electrical tape inside the trigger guard where the trigger makes contact with the frame to act as an over-travel stop. I have it so that there is virtually zero over-travel, but the sear is still able to release. However, because there is no - or extremely little - over-travel, the trigger bar is unable to move far enough to completely clear the firing pin block. As a result, the firing pin just Barely scrapes by the mostly-but-not-fully cleared firing pin block, reducing its power and giving me light strikes.

If this is the case, then I can easily test this at the range by removing the over-travel stop or the firing pin block. Also, if that's the case, then it's a little concerning that the trigger bar would allow the shot to break without fully disengaging the firing pin block.

Does this theory make sense to you? Someone on Enos said he had a similar issue, and when he removed the over-travel stop it fixed his problem.
Errrrr, that makes no sense. Absolutely remove the tape and go test your pistol. At some point, remove your magazine, make sure there's NO round in the chamber. Turn the gun upside down, with muzzle pointing forward. Shine a light down the magwell and work the trigger back and forth, you'll be able to see how the trigger bar interfaces with the firing pin block. With the trigger up against the wall you'll notice that the firing pin block is fully depressed up into the slide. The striker is not coming into contact with the firing pin block when the striker is released.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The problem and fix have been confirmed.

First off, I turned the gun over and looked at how the trigger bar interacted with the firing pin block (FPB), and it looks like the Overwatch trigger bar does Not push the FPB fully out of the way at the wall, and only fully moves it out of the way right after the shot breaks. With the over-travel stop on, it was very clearly not moving the FPB enough to let the striker fully clear it. I called Overwatch Precision to ask about this, and they said their triggers are specifically designed to not fully move the FPB out of the way unless the trigger is pressed fully to the rear, as some sort of safety feature. I find this very odd, but that's what they confirmed.

The guy from Overwatch actually gave me a good way to test it from home, which was to put a #2 pencil down the barrel, eraser side down, then point the gun straight up in the air and dry fire it. Doing this, I found that with the over-travel stop on, it only shot the pen/pencil up a little bit, but with the over-travel stop removed, it shot much much higher.

I confirmed this at the range, too, over the course of a few hundred rounds. The gun shot with increasing reliability the more over-travel I allowed, until it was at 100% reliability with minimal or no over-travel stop. Looking at the spent shell casings, the indentation on the primers were much larger, too, when there was no over-travel stop.

I hope this information is valuable to someone. Lesson: if you use the OP trigger, be careful about shortening the over-travel, or else you might hear a click when you want to hear a bang.
 

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The problem and fix have been confirmed.

First off, I turned the gun over and looked at how the trigger bar interacted with the firing pin block (FPB), and it looks like the Overwatch trigger bar does Not push the FPB fully out of the way at the wall, and only fully moves it out of the way right after the shot breaks. With the over-travel stop on, it was very clearly not moving the FPB enough to let the striker fully clear it. I called Overwatch Precision to ask about this, and they said their triggers are specifically designed to not fully move the FPB out of the way unless the trigger is pressed fully to the rear, as some sort of safety feature. I find this very odd, but that's what they confirmed.

The guy from Overwatch actually gave me a good way to test it from home, which was to put a #2 pencil down the barrel, eraser side down, then point the gun straight up in the air and dry fire it. Doing this, I found that with the over-travel stop on, it only shot the pen/pencil up a little bit, but with the over-travel stop removed, it shot much much higher.

I confirmed this at the range, too, over the course of a few hundred rounds. The gun shot with increasing reliability the more over-travel I allowed, until it was at 100% reliability with minimal or no over-travel stop. Looking at the spent shell casings, the indentation on the primers were much larger, too, when there was no over-travel stop.

I hope this information is valuable to someone. Lesson: if you use the OP trigger, be careful about shortening the over-travel, or else you might hear a click when you want to hear a bang.
Thanks for getting back to us. The information is good to know.

At the end of the day, you removed the tape and the trigger worked as expected?

After now using the trigger without the tape-trigger-stop, do you feel the OPW trigger needs one?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
@Jimmo952 Yes, at the end of the day, I removed the tape and the trigger worked 100%.

As far as my feeling about whether or not the OPW trigger needs an over-travel stop, I'm conflicted. One one hand, as was described to me by the tech on the phone, the trigger shoe Does have an over-travel stop on it. To me, it is certainly less over-travel than stock, and realistically will probably make zero difference in feel when you're really shooting against the clock. However, since I have been extremely spoiled with how I set up my Apex trigger and realized how unbelievable it Can be, I definitely wish I had the same ability with the OWP. It's extremely close, though, so what you give up in 1mm or so of over-travel and reset, you make up for in reduced length of pull (i.e. reach to get your finger on the trigger) and looks (can't deny, the blue OWP looks amazing).
 
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