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Bill.....somebody may have went into it to install a stronger hammer spring. Maybe they had some FTF (Fire) issues and were looking to correct that. How does it cock-by-thumb?

If the trigger is so hard that it almost takes two hands....sooner-or-later something will bend or break. Since the SA pull seems good....that likely has not happened yet. Looks like some exploratory surgery may be in order. I can tell you that I have the PPK/S in all three calibers and the TPH is (to me) not that far off the norm of my PPK's.
 

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Auto,
Thanks. I have PP's in all 3 calibers and this is very different. It is very difficult to cock the hammer by hand. I plan to go to the range and see if it cycles with CCI's. Interestingly prior owner had Earl replace hammer spring, strut and mag release last year for a very healthy price!! I think I may send to M&M to fix. It's a beautiful gun, but I need to be able to use DA.
Bill
 

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BINGO.....we hit the nail right on the head. There is simply no reason why these little guns won't cycle with even bulk ammo without having to install a Godzilla hammer spring. Gunsmiths tend to (sometimes) go overboard fixing Failure To Fire issues. They don't want the gun to "come back".
 

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I just spoke to Mike McClelland at M&M. I am going to send it to him, if Earl won't fix it.
His name is McClellan. And he has fixed more TPHs than Earl has ever seen.

However, it should be understood that the TPH was a problem child from the get-go for both Walther and Interarms. Basically there is a conflict between DA trigger pull and reliability: Nice DA pull = high probability of misfires, a problem that Walther/Ulm lacked enough incentive to solve (the biggest market had just forbidden their importation). It's not clear that any amount of development could have cured the problem in mass-production, as too much hand-fitting and fortuitous convergence of manufacturing tolerances was necessary to make the gun acceptable in DA and reliable in SA.

McClellan probably can improve it considerably from its present condition. But don't expect too much. It's inherent in the design. It's simply too small, and the hammer doesn't have enough mass, to give excellent performance in both DA and SA. The late Roy Melcher, a former Ruger designer and Interarms troubleshooter who investigated the TPH problems at great length and grew very frustrated with Walther's evasive answers to his inquiries, once commented that Ulm itself regarded the gun as a toy, not a serious firearm.

My own solution, in both German and American models, was to forget about DA, and tune the gun for SA, cocking the hammer manually for the first shot.

M
 

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Another essay; sorry about that...

I believe all european built TPH pistols were all manufactured
by Walther in Ulm Germany. I do not believe Manhurin made
any TPH pistols.

All Interarms TPH pistols imported from Walther in Germany were
imported only for Military and Law Enforcement. Commercial sales
to U.S. citizens were forbidden due to the 1968 Gun Control Act
which forbid importation of small pistols like the TPH.

However, they could be manufactured in the U.S. with no restrictions
and as we know they were by U.S. manufacture,Ranger Manufacturing, for Walther.

After the introduction of the U.S. built TPH, Interams still had several
German TPH pistols in .22 LR in stock that could be only sold to Law
Enforcement Agencies, no longer could individual police officers purchase
these pistols. So, few sales were made.

Interarms requested from the ATF a one time exemption to allow these
German built TPH pistols in .22 LR to be sold on the civilian marked and
ATF did grant that request and perhaps several hundred were released
to distributors.

I carry my German TPH pistol in .22 lr nearly all the time for nearly
25 years and It shoots nearly everything I put in it.

I also have a stainless TPH made by Ranger Arms which is more
ammo sensitive and because it is heavier I seldom carry it.

Hope this info helps..
A few minor clarifications to Alfonzo's excellent post:

Since the effective date of the Gun Control Act of 1968 was in October of that year, and the TPH had been introduced somewhat earlier, a small quantity of TPH were imported earlier and found their way into the commercial market. Nor were sales to private individuals forbidden thereafter, only the importation. Importation continued for law enforcement, but I do not believe there was any official importation for, or use by, the military. In those days an individual LEO could buy the gun directly from the importer on the strength of an authorization letter from his chief, and many were imported and sold on that basis. The guns had to be kept in a bonded warehouse until the order arrived, but otherwise business proceeded as before.

Since the restriction applied only to importation, nothing prevented the individual LEO from thereafter selling the gun on the open market, the scarcity of TPHs providing an instant and considerable profit. A considerable number of TPH pistols found their way into ordinary commercial channels by this route.

Eventually, as with all good things that are within the letter but not the spirit of the law, this led to a celebrated prosecution in Pennsylvania in which the majesty, power and indignation of the federal government prevailed. Consequently there was a tightening-up of the conditions attached to import licenses so that TPHs imported thereafter could be sold only to departments, not individual LEOs. By then, however, that spotted pony was long gone from the barn.

The story of Interarms' requested "one-time exemption" has been repeated several times on the internet, but as far as I can ascertain it has no foundation in fact.

As Alfonzo states, one significant difference between the German and American TPH pistols is the weight. All USA-made pistols had steel frames which definitely discourage shirt-pocket carry. Another difference is that among the USA-made pistols it is difficult to find two that are made exactly the same. Many of them don't work, and... might not ever.

M
 

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What a fantastic set of thoughts shared here. Here's my glass of dark German beer being raised to the hopes that once Walther re-established itself in America they'll reconsider manufacturing these little gems again. They really had a good thing going with that near-perfect carry pistol.

What's this? Sorry guys... gotta go. Santa Claus is at the door.

-Pilotsteve
 

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Discussion Starter #28
MGMike,

so I can assume the court decision you mention must have happened after 1976 since that is the date stamped on my gun and therefore mine might have come from one of those enterprising LEOs?

Thanks again to all responders for an outstanding knowledge exchange!
 

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Bill....if you get that gun to M&M....I have no doubt they will fix it. When they do....you will love it.

I did a lot of research before I purchased one and was extremely lucky to get one at a real bargain....and one that worked right out of the box. Some posters will get on a forum for the sole purpose of running-down a gun and some won't for fear of being bashed from that brand of gun-lover. So....we really don't know how many worked and how many didn't. I will take Mike's word for it that it may have been (and could be now) a hit-or-miss proposition. I can tell you that myself, as well as several others here on the forum, have TPH's that work. Mine has experienced two failures to fire. One was a bulk round that was the normal dud you will find in a box of 525 of those things and the other was an old round that I picked-up off the ground which had already turned brown with age.

I have no doubt they will fix it and you will be thrilled.
 

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MGMike,

so I can assume the court decision you mention must have happened after 1976 since that is the date stamped on my gun and therefore mine might have come from one of those enterprising LEOs?

Thanks again to all responders for an outstanding knowledge exchange!
The criminal case I referred to happened, to the best of my recollection, in the late 'eighties. But I don't think one can safely make any assumptions about how a particular German-made TPH found its way into private hands.

M
 

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Mike.....you mentioned hammer-mass as a TPH issue. Bear in mind I can be accused of being a home-spun gunsmith, but I have stayed in many Holiday Inn's before. Would it be possible to think about adding mass to the hammer? There is a dandy little hole there already just waiting for some weight to be added.:D
 

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The court's decision came in 1986. The citation is US v. Goodman. The TPH guns were imported off and on, by Interarms, until production of the US made ones began. The rules about how they were sold by the importer varied over time. Similar things were applied to "assault weapons" banned from import in 1989; Gun South ended up with Steyr AUG/SA guns they sold to law enforcement officers with permission from their agencies, and could then be resold to anyone. H&K imported some 9mm and .223 rifles for sale to government entities that were later resold to the public. Just like the Goodman case, there were instances of prosecutions for working to scam ATF's importation rules as to semi-automatic "assault weapons" too. http://www.constitution.org/2ll/bardwell/us_v_goodman.txt
 

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Discussion Starter #33
Looks like more thn one Goodman got in trouble with te Feds! Adding 1986 to the google found it. Thanks. A lawyer conspiring with LEOs to import banned firearms. I've been to Archbald! It's other claim to fame is a 40' deep pothole.

Thanks for the citation.
 

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Mike.....you mentioned hammer-mass as a TPH issue. Bear in mind I can be accused of being a home-spun gunsmith, but I have stayed in many Holiday Inn's before. Would it be possible to think about adding mass to the hammer? There is a dandy little hole there already just waiting for some weight to be added.:D
Well, I am not a gunsmith or a gun designer or a physicist, but I would imagine that there is more to it than just insufficient mass. In such a small pistol the length of the arc through which the hammer travels is effectively limited, and increasing spring pressure to boost its acceleration makes the DA pull intolerable. Also, the window for acceptable ignition is by no means constant, as the primer sensitivity of ammunition can vary considerably.

But if you are inclined to experiment, by all means go for it, and tell us what happens. According to the motto of H.P. White Laboratories, "One experiment is worth a thousand expert opinions." And as Benjamin Franklin is alleged to have said, "You'll never know for sure until you hang a key on a kite."

M
 

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My stainless TPH has fired w/o a problem right out of the box in both modes. Shot many qualification courses w/ it. Only thing I've ever broke was a grip panel.
Guess I got lucky for once! :D
 

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I can think of no reason to ever make a hammer heavier. It will just require more energy for the slide to move rearward. I have gone the opposite way on a couple of TPH hammers, this one has 600-700 flawless rounds through it. I carry CCI Mini Mags in mine, but any hi vel shells seem to function just fine.
 

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Well here's a thread back from the dead...
Always nice to see some discussion of the TPH, tho' I'd forgotten Mike's comments on Walther's attitude about the gun.
First one I ever handled was the property of a local FBI agent, and his had MMC adjustable sights.
My current Interarms gun has run like a top, but there are now better alternatives as 'all the time' guns. That said, the TPH is too damned neat to let go...but it doesn't appear Walther has an appetite to try again.
Moon
 

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Love it, but junk at the moment

My tph barely fires. I've only shot two kinds of ammo but have had many misfires. Too pretty of a pistol to let it go. Hope this issue can be solved.
 

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Welcome to WaltherForums!

What type and caliber of TPH do you have? My Interarms stainless TPH .22LR works perfectly with CCI MiniMags. Be sure the gun and mags are clean and hold it firmly. If you still can't get it running give M&M Gunsmithing a call:

M&M Gunsmithing
Contact Us
2423 Carter Grove Rd Hazel Green Al. 35750
571-276-7676
E-mail [email protected]
E-mail [email protected]
 
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