Walther Forums banner

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
373 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Is it me or does it seem that neither selling or buying of PPKs is happening as much? I know locally we have few for sale and when they are up, little demand. Didn't seem like that last year and earlier - or is it me?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
I think a lot of folks are buying the new Fort Smith versions... we can’t keep them in stock locally. Shops only get 2 or 3 in at a time. As for the older models, it seems that folks don’t want to take a lot of chances on an Interarms or S&W one because of all the boogieman stories online. They know that one of those guns can look absolutely beautiful but have major functional issues. Then there are the German/French ones...

Basically, I feel like there are too many options on the market right now for these gun models.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
373 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
As a fan of the older ones, I didn't even think of people taking that option. Thanks for bringing that up. Next time I'm at my LGS, I'll have to ask what their experience is, as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
As a fan of the older ones, I didn't even think of people taking that option. Thanks for bringing that up. Next time I'm at my LGS, I'll have to ask what their experience is, as well.
No problem.

It’s just a weird time... because if we add the ‘current environment’ into the equation, some new shooters want a small gun like the Ppk/ppks but they want more rounds or a bigger caliber. Even so, they might take the Walther if there’s nothing else available. I saw a dude the other day walk in and buy whatever gun the shop had left on the shelf. Literally.

I bought a mid-80s Ppk late last year and honestly, it was a risk. It could have had a falling safety, it could have the dropsies, it could have had Uncle Bobs gunsmithing done to it, etc. Just like any used gun but magnified because it’s not the Euro version and many were known to have issues. At least with the new Ft Smith ones, you get a warranty. With the Ft Smith going for $700 to $850, it’s probably hard to sell an older one for $575 to $700... unless the buyer is specifically looking for that year model or is desperate during these times and needs a tiny gun ASAP.

I bet it would sell fast if taken to the right local shop that has nothing similar in stock...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
638 Posts
A few years back I bought a S&W version of a PPK in 380. Great shape. Took a couple of trips to Walther to make it operate properly and consistently. It now is one of my favorite shooters. my first pistol was the 2013 PPK/S in 22. It too had several issues but Walther took care of them.
I think that most young(er) buyers want a lighter, smaller, more capacity, “modern” looking pistol. I have LCPII pistols in both 380 & 22. These are very light, easier to conceal. They have also been close to issue free. But neither is destined to be a classic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
373 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Maybe after the next James Bond film comes out, we'll see a surge again. But I bet you're right, people are probably choosing PPS or Shield or G43 or some other 9mm - if they can find them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts
Lifetime warranty on the the new ones so why take a chance on the Ranger models.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
373 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Because they're better (IMHO) and the German ones are better than those? But, honestly, I've never tried the new one. I did have a S&W and never had a problem with it. I just don't like the finish on the new ones as much. And there's nothing better looking than the old blued ones.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
I have two PP pistols from Ranger, one from W Germany. I can't tell any significant difference in these. They are all good. Everyone always says German PPs are better, but no one quantifies their better qualities. I wish they would. S&W changed the frame which was a mistake. S&W isn't the same as it was back in the 70s but some folks who own the S&W PP guns are happy with them. Ft. Smith guns I haven't seen but seem to be an improvement over S&Ws, which may be because Smith's recall left a bad taste. To change slightly off topic, I had a Walther P22(I think) S&W and it was awful. I don't know where it was made.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,788 Posts
Well, ask yourself this: are there better, more reliable designs out there, that cost less, weigh less, are smaller, more comfortable to shoot, not picky about ammo, are chambered for larger calibers, can be had everywhere at reasonable market prices -current sitch notwithstanding- with parts and customer service abundant?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,788 Posts
... Everyone always says German PPs are better, but no one quantifies their better qualities. I wish they would...
OK: German PP, PPK, and PPK/S (excepting the Umarex 22) were machined rather than cast, like all the American ones until just now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
Machined is more time-consuming and requires much more hands-on, but is it "better" than cast? In what way? Weight is virtually the same, function is the same, capacity is the same. I think it unproductive to adhere to production methods for practical purposes, although one can get a certain abstract pleasure of an all-machined gun. Me, I don't give a whit, so long as the platform is reliable.

My Sig P 365 weighs the same loaded as my .32 PPK loaded. And holds more rounds. It's smaller by a little, more powerful by a lot, and completely reliable...so are my PPKs and /S. Still, I chose more often to carry the PPK 380 because I'm a traditionalist who doesn't expect to be in a gunfight, since citizen gunfights are unknown in my community.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Better = during lifespan of ownership, from new out of box until now, has never needed any trips back to Walther (or a specialized gunsmith) in order to make whole, serviceable, and/or reliable with regard to original design function and/or manufacturer specification

If I apply that definition to my collection of PP firearms, then the German ones are better.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
;Applying your standards, I've not needed a trip back to Walther for either of my Ranger pistols, one from 83, the other from 94. I don't make any claims they're "better" but neither do I accept German made guns are better.

Specialized gunsmith? Earl the PP Man does an active and presumably profitable business selling replacement parts on PP pistols made in Germany, so they're not bullet proof. They wear out and break, being made by humans, like anything else. So the belief they are immune from maintenance is provably false. I recently put a new loaded round indicator spring in my W German PPK. Any belief they're fail-safe is specious.

There is a tendency to attribute mystical properties to machined guns, or about anything made BC (before computers) but to me, this is strictly mythical. I say mythical because there is frequently no practical difference, if standards are high on the persons running the computers. This is the 21st century, the computer age, and you can buy (for example) a totally machined 1911 for $2500, or you can buy a mass-produced cast 1911 with the same features and add-ons for $600 (basic model for $450). Both are totally reliable.

The main advantage to Old PPKs is they are a good investment...for now. Collector interest has run the price up on anything, from Beanie Babies to Walthers. An all-matching K98k with a good bore will run north of $2500, and Germany made millions of them. Go figure. It may not last forever, like Beanie Baby collection. I remember when those glass insulators from telephone poles were bringing outrageous prices.

Since I don't have the money to buy any more German made PPs, I'll happily buy Rangers, but I won't buy S&Ws because of their history. However, I realize and admit this is a prejudice based less on facts than on reality. I don't know but would think they have minimal resale value, which is important to me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
;Applying your standards, I've not needed a trip back to Walther for either of my Ranger pistols, one from 83, the other from 94. I don't make any claims they're "better" but neither do I accept German made guns are better.

Specialized gunsmith? Earl the PP Man does an active and presumably profitable business selling replacement parts on PP pistols made in Germany, so they're not bullet proof. They wear out and break, being made by humans, like anything else. So the belief they are immune from maintenance is provably false. I recently put a new loaded round indicator spring in my W German PPK. Any belief they're fail-safe is specious.

There is a tendency to attribute mystical properties to machined guns, or about anything made BC (before computers) but to me, this is strictly mythical. I say mythical because there is frequently no practical difference, if standards are high on the persons running the computers. This is the 21st century, the computer age, and you can buy (for example) a totally machined 1911 for $2500, or you can buy a mass-produced cast 1911 with the same features and add-ons for $600 (basic model for $450). Both are totally reliable.

The main advantage to Old PPKs is they are a good investment...for now. Collector interest has run the price up on anything, from Beanie Babies to Walthers. An all-matching K98k with a good bore will run north of $2500, and Germany made millions of them. Go figure. It may not last forever, like Beanie Baby collection. I remember when those glass insulators from telephone poles were bringing outrageous prices.

Since I don't have the money to buy any more German made PPs, I'll happily buy Rangers, but I won't buy S&Ws because of their history. However, I realize and admit this is a prejudice based less on facts than on reality. I don't know but would think they have minimal resale value, which is important to me.
If you haven’t experienced it then perhaps there’s no ‘better’ amongst your guns... everyone is not so fortunate. I don’t know how many rounds are through your guns. I don’t know how you take care of them. I don’t know if they are your primary guns or safe queens. Just google Walther issues on YouTube. How many are German guns? I’ve had to replace safety detents, catches, etc on my non-German pp’s, therefore, according to my standards based on experience with my guns, the German ones (and I’ve got 8) are better.

Oh, and as for Earl, I believe that he sells WAY more German guns (and magazines and apparel) than he receives in for repair in his profitable business. But it’s been several months since I’ve spoken to him. Perhaps someone should ask him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
Having 8 German-made PP-guns would seem to mean not many individual guns get a lot of range time unless you own a range or own an ammo factory. As for mine, they get as much range time as I can afford. Which is as much as any pistol I own. Enough time, but I'm not obsessed and lack a bucket of ammo for them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
Having 8 German-made PP-guns would seem to mean not many individual guns get a lot of range time unless you own a range or own an ammo factory. As for mine, they get as much range time as I can afford. Which is as much as any pistol I own. Enough time, but I'm not obsessed and lack a bucket of ammo for them.
How would having 8 (or however many) guns mean that those guns don’t each get sufficient range time? I have an annual membership at an outdoor range and I spend a lot of time there teaching. My brother also has a small backyard range (we had one growing up in the country). And what does that have to do with which of my guns are deemed to be better than the others? I am not a collector nor do I buy guns primarily for investment purposes. I shoot and use what I buy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
How would having 8 (or however many) guns mean that those guns don’t each get sufficient range time? I have an annual membership at an outdoor range and I spend a lot of time there teaching. My brother also has a small backyard range (we had one growing up in the country). And what does that have to do with which of my guns are deemed to be better than the others? I am not a collector nor do I buy guns primarily for investment purposes. I shoot and use what I buy.
For clarification, I made no mention of "sufficient" range time for your guns. I don't even know what sufficient range time would be. What I said with 8 guns, individual range time for any particular of the eight is likely limited since you have so many. Maybe you have a rotation schedule and lots of ammo. I shoot my PPK .360 most of the time; my PPK/S was a gift from my late wife and spends the days in the safe. My .32 I shoot occasionally, but ammo being what it is, especially now, it doesn't get attention it should. Also, I have another .32 that I like to shoot, a FN 1910.

I, myself, am a firearms instructor, but not with .380s or .32s. I have to buy my own ammo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
65 Posts
For clarification, I made no mention of "sufficient" range time for your guns. I don't even know what sufficient range time would be. What I said with 8 guns, individual range time for any particular of the eight is likely limited since you have so many. Maybe you have a rotation schedule and lots of ammo. I shoot my PPK .360 most of the time; my PPK/S was a gift from my late wife and spends the days in the safe. My .32 I shoot occasionally, but ammo being what it is, especially now, it doesn't get attention it should. Also, I have another .32 that I like to shoot, a FN 1910.
Yeah, I interpreted ‘a lot of range time’ as ‘sufficient range time’ for each gun since a lot means a lot of different things to different people. I have to rotate the guns if I’m to shoot each one; I don’t like to let anything sit in the safe. In addition to the Walthers, I have HKs (which I carry in the winter months). I try to shoot them all equally.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
I have an HK P7, great pistol and very accurate. It's heavy, though. It was a retirement gift and does spend a lot of time in the safe. I had trouble finding a holster for it; obsolete. I seldom carry it, even in winter, which in GA isn't much more, usually, than October up north.

The very first time I shot the HK, and I mean the actual first time I pulled the trigger on a live round with no preparation, was in a qualification course for my agency and I shot 94%. This reflects on the pistol, not on me. Unfimilar and a hassle with reloading with the butt mag release and the squeeze and some confusion but I managed. Wonderful pistol. Heavy on the recoil spring, kinda hard for me to rack the slide with my shoulder rotator cuff problem..

Oh, "lot" does depend on interpretation, but it always means more than "sufficient." :)
 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Top