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New member here so Hello Everyone!

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2. Walther CCP m2. This has been another choice at the top of my interest but I discarded it because it was larger than I desired in a ccw. It is now back on my list. However, it seems to have had a lot of issues and/or poor design? Can anyone comment on this and tell me more about the trigger feel and accuracy?

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God Bless,
Ralph

As Jaake, stated, read the forums about the CCP. I have the 2nd gen and use it for CC. I would not buy it if I had the chance to go back in time. It CAN chamber a round without the striker being engaged. It is POSSIBLE that it could fire in your house when loading it if you short stroke it.
 

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As Jaake, stated, read the forums about the CCP. I have the 2nd gen and use it for CC. I would not buy it if I had the chance to go back in time. It CAN chamber a round without the striker being engaged. It is POSSIBLE that it could fire in your house when loading it if you short stroke it.
I've read your comment several times but I don't think I understand it. Could you explain your concern in more detail?
 

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I've read your comment several times but I don't think I understand it. Could you explain your concern in more detail?

With a lot of other guns, as the action is coming back where the striker engages then continues further to engage the cartridge. The CCP goes past the point where it will engage the cartridge before the striker is able to be caught. If at any time the action goes forward before the striker is caught, it does so with the pin protruding. If that happened after passing the point where it can engage the cartridge, then the pin is resting on the cartridge for that return trip.
 

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As Jaake, stated, read the forums about the CCP. I have the 2nd gen and use it for CC. I would not buy it if I had the chance to go back in time. It CAN chamber a round without the striker being engaged. It is POSSIBLE that it could fire in your house when loading it if you short stroke it.
Is this a M1, M2 CCP issue or both models?

Is there material to read or video to watch?

Is this at all related to the CCP drop safe recall?


My experience has been good with my M1 CCP. Production date in 2015. So far, 400 rnds with only 1 fail to feed with my second mag, first time shooting it. Does get warm after a couple of hundred rounds and does require cleaning but neither is a issue for me. This brings up a question:

Is ultrasonic bath cleaning recommended with the CCP.
Local range offers a free cleaning after range lane rental. I usually decline and clean all my guns at home.

Takedown isn't so hard after the first couple of times. Of course the M2 doesn't require a separate tool.

Feels great in the hand. Conceals well on me in a IWB Comp-Tac Infidel Ultra Max holster.
It is rotated in the CC IWB line up.
 

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My experience has been good with my M1 CCP. Production date in 2015. So far, 400 rnds with only 1 fail to feed with my second mag, first time shooting it. Does get warm after a couple of hundred rounds and does require cleaning but neither is a issue for me. This brings up a question:

Is ultrasonic bath cleaning recommended with the CCP.
Local range offers a free cleaning after range lane rental. I usually decline and clean all my guns at home.

Takedown isn't so hard after the first couple of times. Of course the M2 doesn't require a separate tool.

Feels great in the hand. Conceals well on me in a IWB Comp-Tac Infidel Ultra Max holster.
It is rotated in the CC IWB line up.[/QUOTE]

While the blow back design definitely leaves the CCP dirtier out of nothing more then sheer laziness I’ve let mine go as many as 6-700 rounds without cleaning. I’d get home from the range clean my other guns .... look at the CCP and decide I don’t feel like playing with the takedown. Actually the take down usually goes smooth, it’s the reassembly that gives me a harder time.
 

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Originally Posted by Grey_Gunner It CAN chamber a round without the striker being engaged. It is POSSIBLE that it could fire in your house when loading it if you short stroke it.



Is this a M1, M2 CCP issue or both models?

Is there material to read or video to watch?

Is this at all related to the CCP drop safe recall?
So..nothing?...no reference materials?
 

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Protruding pins CCP

Originally Posted by Grey_Gunner It CAN chamber a round without the striker being engaged. It is POSSIBLE that it could fire in your house when loading it if you short stroke it.



So..nothing?...no reference materials?

I was expecting someone with more knowledge than me to responde.


There is a lot of info about the drop safety here, which I believe is what the recall was about.


This has nothing to do with that. Just bad design. I have had a double tap before. My procedure for loading this is to rack an empty gun with NO mag, to engage the pin. Then insert Mag and rack again. Then remove the Mag and fill to brim and reinsert mag into gun. The only way I will ever load this gun again.



It is likely to be both M1 & M2. I have pictures that I can post but not a video. I am not that great at video/photography as you can see with my previous pictures.


Here the cartridge is engage while the pin is still protruding.
 

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Originally Posted by Grey_Gunner It CAN chamber a round without the striker being engaged. It is POSSIBLE that it could fire in your house when loading it if you short stroke it.



So..nothing?...no reference materials?
I'm pretty sure I have not read of a cartridge being ignited due to a short stroke. The fact is that if the striker is not caught by the sear, it will follow the slide forward and the nose of the striker will rest on the primer. Early on there were a couple of Members here who removed the projectile and powder from a few brands of ammo and repeatedly, purposefully dropped the slide/striker onto the live primer. In each case a small indentation was made in the primer although none were ignited. A very brief and narrow test done here only... It should be noted that in many other striker fired pistols the firing pin block is located near the rear of the chamber....on the CCP, it is almost all the way to the rear of the striker's travel and near the sear, and, is what allows this situation to occur. Any semi auto can short stroke. I don't know of any others that allow the striker to contact the primer should this occur.

It is a bit unnerving to many that this can occur, in fact it is possible to chamber a round from the mag while purposefully short stroking....in that case there nothing to stop the striker from moving all the way forward. I discussed this with the Chief engineer in Germany and this had been thoroughly tested prior to the release of the pistol. One of the answers I'm not in agreement with. The other I think is correct. Forward movement of the slide during a short stroke does not allow the light weight striker to generate enough speed to ignite the primer.....perhaps not....but this is an issue some of us are not happy about. It is a poor design no matter what spin you put on it in my opinion and I don't know why Walther designed it this way. If you look at other Walther striker fired pistols you will see the firing pin block sits forward, near the chamber and is in position to catch the striker as soon as it moves a quarter of an inch or so rearward of the chamber/cartridge....

Obviously if you pull the striker rearward and were to release it...in some manner, say by pulling the trigger, the speed and mass of the striker will ignite a cartridge. I think if it were not for the forward movement of the slide slowing the non captured striker down....it would ignite a round.

The other test that I've seen a video of is a drop test. UTube, so I can't attest to it being 100% accurate....in other words it was not done at a factory test facility. But, the testers allow the non captured striker to rest on a live primer. They then do a drop test, muzzle up, and the primer fires. The theory here is that the impact drives the primer into the nose of the protruding firing pin. My theory is that the impact drives the striker rearward, compressing the striker spring and as it rebounds....there is no slide to slow it down and it hits the primer hard enough to ignite it. So, if the test is accurate for whatever reason...the location of the drop safety is too far rearward to be effective on a non captured striker making the pistol unsafe if dropped.

All of this is nothing new and has been a concern discussed from day one. But I don't remember ever reading of a short stroke igniting a round. It is still a less than desirable situation as far as I'm concerned. I hope that explains the concern many have discussed. 1917
 

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I'm pretty sure I have not read of a cartridge being ignited due to a short stroke... <snipped> . 1917

Very informative, thanks. But if you read through everything that I have posted about the CCP you will find at least one occurance of a short stroke producing an ignition. It was at the range and pulled the trigger once and got two shots. The pull of the trigger is too long and gritty for me to confuse it. At least I think it was caused due to a short stroke.
 

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From the list in the OP I would definitely get the PPS. I don't trust the CCP.
 

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Very informative, thanks. But if you read through everything that I have posted about the CCP you will find at least one occurance of a short stroke producing an ignition. It was at the range and pulled the trigger once and got two shots. The pull of the trigger is too long and gritty for me to confuse it. At least I think it was caused due to a short stroke.
Perhaps that happened, perhaps the gun owner didn't understand what happened. Sorry, can't help you there. Like I say, plenty of us aren't happy about this design. Go up the FAQ section and you can find what was a sticky by WobblyWalt who jumped all over this issue. But, he wasn't the first on the block to bring it up.

Unless something was changed during the recall, which I don't believe was ever explained by Walther in any manner, the nose of the striker rests against the primer any time a round is chambered, the slide is closed and the striker is not caught by the sear/firing pin block. The next question one might ask is what about primer hardness. I don't know about a soft, easy to indent primer that might ignite....but I do know about hard primers....I've run into some. Bought a box of Remington something in .380 one time and over 50 percent of the rounds took two strikes. Could a brand somewhere have softer or thinner metal in the primer. I don't know.....but something soft and thin might certainly be a candidate for ignition. And none of this discusses what might happen with a non captured striker that has jammed up from dirt or a damaged spring.

So.....I don't like the system and think it a poor design. Can't argue that it hasn't happened, can't argue that it has.....but it certainly seems possible. And, I'm sure I've not read nearly all there is to know about CCP's. 1917
 

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Attached is the drop firing of a primer video....This is a pretty good effort of presenting how the pistol works although a few times the name of the parts are not stated accurately. In this video a pre recall CCP has a primed case installed with the striker not caught by the sear nor the firing pin block. The pistol is then dropped, muzzle up, and the primer fires. With the striker caught behind the sear and the firing pin block, the primer does not fire. The manual safety of course plays no part in stopping any of this...all it does is press the trigger bar down so that it cannot connect with the cylinder. It appears they are dropping the pistol on a floor covering of some kind and not on bare concrete.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...36ABC64AB2FECE4DA6E236ABC64AB2FECE4&FORM=VIRE

They say they are sending the pistol off for the recall and will retest. I have not seen that video. I see nothing wrong or unfair in this test. They are simply demonstrating that a pre recall CCP can ignite the primer/live round if dropped.

I have not seen the recall video if it exists. This is a bit different than the uncaught striker nose resting on a primer while handling or shooting the pistol but it does show that this whole situation is very dangerous. Hopefully the recall addressed this but if the non caught striker still can rest against a primer it is unlikely that it did. I was never able to fully understand exactly what was done during the recall. Some reported a slightly taller sear but without micrometer measurements this doesn't tell us much. Some reported a solid roll pin or double roll pin being installed through the rear system housing to hold the counter plate (firmer?).

But, has this issue been resolved? Original recall or second generation? I don't know. Some of you with the M2 can test if the striker nose still sticks out and if a round can be chambered with a non captured striker. I appears the sear/drop safety work fine as long as the striker is fully cocked and caught. With exception of early pistols, some of which that allowed the entire drop safety to drop out the bottom of the slide where it promptly hung up forward movement of the slide. None of this bodes well for a CCPistol. 1917
 

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But, has this issue been resolved? Original recall or second generation? I don't know. Some of you with the M2 can test if the striker nose still sticks out and if a round can be chambered with a non captured striker. I appears the sear/drop safety work fine as long as the striker is fully cocked and caught. With exception of early pistols, some of which that allowed the entire drop safety to drop out the bottom of the slide where it promptly hung up forward movement of the slide. None of this bodes well for a CCPistol. 1917

The M2 and M1 are virtually identical with the exception of the newly designed slide release. The M2 has a horizontal slide that when pushed to the right releases the slide latch. When the slide is lifted the striker assembly "pops" out which, unlike the M1, allows removal of the entire striker assembly.

After reviewing several disassembly videos there are several noticeable differences:

1. The M1 locking catch and locking catch hook have been replaced by the
spring guide (a cap) only.

2. The striker is slightly shorter and the striker "lug" is fully to the rear.

3. The striker spring is secured into the rear of the striker by the red cocked
indicator.

Other than those changes there is no difference. Since the striker spring is slightly compressed when the assembly is locked into place the firing pin does protrude.....see video at location 7:48.

 

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I am not that great at video/photography as you can see with my previous pictures.


Here the cartridge is engage while the pin is still protruding.

Practice, practice, practice. Two of the most important items in photography are light, light, light and focus. A white background makes it difficult to photograph dark objects like your firearm. The white is interfering with your sensor....similar to taking a photo of someone's face while they are standing in front of a bright window. You need the light to be on the firearm. A flash will accomplish this but many times a camera mounted flash is just too much, creates overexposed areas (too much light) and dark shadows.

You photo does one thing very well and something that many miss. You are trying to illustrate the firing pin sticking out of the breech face. You did that very nicely.....but it is hard to see due to being underexposed. Removing the light background, turning the pistol so that sunlight, artificial light or just light from a bright window will fall across the breech face will get you where you are wanting to go. The fact that your white background is simple is good and does not detract from the subject of your photo but it is throwing off the sensor. 1917
 

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I am not that great at video/photography as you can see with my previous pictures.


Here the cartridge is engage while the pin is still protruding.

Practice, practice, practice. Two of the most important items in photography are light, light, light and focus. A white background makes it difficult to photograph dark objects like your firearm. The white is interfering with your sensor....similar to taking a photo of someone's face while they are standing in front of a bright window. You need the light to be on the firearm. A flash will accomplish this but many times a camera mounted flash is just too much, creates overexposed areas (too much light) and dark shadows.

Your photo does one thing very well and something that many miss. You are trying to illustrate the firing pin sticking out of the breech face. You did that very nicely.....but it is hard to see due to being underexposed. Removing the light background, turning the pistol so that sunlight, artificial light or just light from a bright window will fall across the breech face will get you where you are wanting to go. The fact that your white background is simple is good and does not detract from the subject of your photo but it is throwing off the sensor. 1917



I lightened your photo and cropped it but nothing much beats a well lit and sharply focused photo to begin with. Cropping can be done a little bit but you begin to loose pixel quality pretty quickly unless you have a very high end camera. One thing about digital......there is no film to pay for.....so my advice is shoot, shoot, shoot and experiment if you want to get better. A camera phone will take absolutely excellent close up photos of gun parts.
 

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The M2 and M1 are virtually identical with the exception of the newly designed slide release. The M2 has a horizontal slide that when pushed to the right releases the slide latch. When the slide is lifted the striker assembly "pops" out which, unlike the M1, allows removal of the entire striker assembly.

After reviewing several disassembly videos there are several noticeable differences:

1. The M1 locking catch and locking catch hook have been replaced by the
spring guide (a cap) only.

2. The striker is slightly shorter and the striker "lug" is fully to the rear.

3. The striker spring is secured into the rear of the striker by the red cocked
indicator.

Other than those changes there is no difference. Since the striker spring is slightly compressed when the assembly is locked into place the firing pin does protrude.....see video at location 7:48.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z631ta5etBk
Super nice and very professsional video. However, my question is whether or not the protruding firing pin is a problem with the M2. From what has been explained on this thread I get the basic idea to the problem but I just don't know how much a short stroke might actually happen. Please advice.
 

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However, my question is whether or not the protruding firing pin is a problem with the M2. From what has been explained on this thread I get the basic idea to the problem but I just don't know how much a short stroke might actually happen. Please advice.
As I reported in the "problems and Issues" thread in Jan 2015 I had 5 FTFi out of the first 100 rounds through my CCP M1. In all 5 instances the rounds were chambered but the striker was not cocked. None of the 5 rounds showed signs of firing pin indentions on the primer. All 5 rounds were rechambered and fired normally.

Short strokes have occurred and will probably continue to occur but there are no stats on that issue. I am unaware of any verified "short strokes" resulting in ignition although grey-gunner believes he experienced one.

My initial report can be found in post #90 in the problems sticky. I suggest you read through that thread but keep in mind those issues pertained to the M1 model. Supposedly the M2 model resolved most of the issues??????

https://www.waltherforums.com/forum/ccp/40094-ccp-problems-issues-running-thread-9.html
 

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I agree, a pretty good video... I've watched perhaps a 100 and haven't seen anyone not hang up the extractor in the cutout....:) You have to pull the slide rearward just a bit so the extractor will clear the chamber, then lift. I also notice that Walther is slowly turning all of the fit and finish into a fine looking pistol. They've done the same with the P22. All the bits and bobs seem very nicely done. If you look at older sears and disconnectors there is no comparison spit and polish wise with the new ones. The take down is much better.

Perhaps they have stopped mags from dropping and a few dozen other things. I'm still not sold on it though. Are they drop safe if the striker is not caught? 1917
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 · (Edited)
UPDATE TO THREAD



Hello everyone!

I just wanted to update the thread as I made a decision on a pistol. I ended up purchasing a Kahr S9 last week and was able to shoot it the other day. It is absolutely sweet and performs exactly as I desire in a pistol! I just did not like any of the other striker fired guns triggers, at all. The pull and feel varies on all of them which I do not like.

The Kahrs have a longer pull BUT the trigger is absolutely consistent, extremely smooth and they don't have that wall prior to the break! The gun just fires after some unbeknownst point which I am more accustomed to. I prefer this type trigger because it encourages you to stay on target. Absolutely sweet!

Anyhow, here is my impression of the Kahr S9.

1. It is a good looking gun.

2. It feels good in the hand and a very nice weight for a ccw.

3. It is an excellent size for a ccw. The gun actually seems more like a full size than a smaller ccw to me, which is a good thing. It however conceals very well especially given it is only .90in. wide.

4. Recoil was excellent. It jumps slightly more than my Bersa Bp9cc but only slightly. That is impressive considering it is smaller and quite a bit lighter than the Bersa.

5. The gun is highly accurate! I had never shot a Kahr nor a gun with bar-dot sights as mine mistakenly arrived with. So I was really happy with the results on my first outing. My images won't upload here for some reason but you can visit TheHighRoad if interested.

**At 15 ft my 7 shot grouping was 2in. These were my first shots and I was trying to figure out the bar-dot sights. I considered it an excellent start though.

**At 20 ft my 14 shot grouping was about 2 1/4 in.

**At 50 ft my 7 shot grouping was 3 in. Oddly, I was pulling those to the right but again I was trying to figure out the bar-dot sights. I was very excited with these results because my groupings with my Bp9cc were extremely poor from this distance and inconsistent. This type grouping is comparable to what I get with my Bersa Thunder 380's in single action mode.

**At 90 ft my 7 shot grouping was 6 1/2 in on a silhouette target. I shoot from that distance on occasion mostly for kicks and giggles but also for precision purposes. It tells me a lot about a gun and it makes the bullseye from 20ft and 30ft seem basketball size. So it generates a lot of confidence when you step up to shorter distances.



6. Rapid fire and quick fire at 15ft was excellent as well, the gun points well. This was one of my major concerns with the longer Kahr trigger pull but I had absolutely no issues with it at all! I could shoot it as quickly as I desired and it remained on target. My results with rapid and quick fire were impressive because I expected it to be quite a bit slower but it wasn't at all. I also never had an issue with trigger reset. My Kahr S9 pull weight is about 6.25lbs.

7. I ran about 100 rds through it using Fiocchi FMJ 115gr and American Eagle FMJ 115. In all those rounds, I only had two shots that I'd consider trigger jerks. Even with those two flyers they were still within inches of where I was aiming.

All in all, I was extremely pleased. I plan on adding some three dot night sights and I may install the Galloway spring kit in order to get the pull weight around 5lbs.

God Bless,
Ralph
 
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