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I have a 1984 vintage, stainless Interarms PPK/S which decocked, intermittently, as the slide returned to battery. Called up Walther in Ft. Smith, they emailed me a prepaid shipping label, and ultimately repaired it by fitting a new safety/decocker. They covered it under warranty, at no charge.

Pretty good service for what at the time was a 35 year old pistol!
 

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Gaetano, what caliber is your pistol? We can provide photos of what the ejector should look like.

The follower in an empty magazine is responsible for pressing the ejector up after the last shot so that it will catch the open slide. You can insert an empty magazine in an empty pistol, pull the slide rearward and look directly at the parts in question. The left side of the follower must engage the ejector and lift it. It should lift the rear of the ejector far enough to securely place it on the face of the breech.



Above is a photo of the left side of a .32 mag follower engaging the ejector and lifting it.



This photo shows the rear of the ejector sitting squarely in front of the breech where it holds the slide open. Properly functioning.....the follower of an empty magazine locked into the pistol should engage and lift the ejector. If not, you will need to determine what corrective action to take but engagement is easily seen through the ejection port or with the slide off.

I don't fully understand your second question. Double action is where the hammer is down and pulling the trigger first cocks the hammer and then releases it. Two actions....cock and release....double action.

Single action is where the hammer is already cocked and pulling the trigger simply releases the hammer.

The safety must be set to fire of course. The firing pin must be clean and fully reset to the rear. It cannot be damaged or broken. I assume you are getting no firing pin marks on the primer nor is a round being ignited. Is the firing pin moving freely and is the slide fully closing on a chambered round. What caliber? I have a new Interarms .380 built in 1992 that I can furnish good pictures or measurement on. They were built in Alabama, USA where I live. 1917
 

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Well, that is irritating, 1/2 of this thread was missing when I posted the above.

OK, try again. It's 4 am in Italy right now anyway...everyone should be sleeping. I think we need a clear understanding of exactly what is going on here. I know I do before I can offer my 2 cents on what's wrong. Gaetano your English is coming through fine.

Now that I see the pictures that you have posted I see the pistol is a .380/9mm Kurz. I also see that the follower is engaging the ejector and lifting it high as it should. So the first question is if you fully insert an empty mag into the pistol and pull the slide all the way rearward does the follower shove the ejector up high enough on the face of the breech to catch the slide? If so the parts are working properly. If it does not...job one is to figure out why not. What is stopping it from lifting up?

If it works fine when hand cycling but not when firing then several things could be wrong. Ammo too weak to blow the slide fully rearward, too stiff of a recoil spring, limp wristing (Not holding the pistol firmly when firing), dirty magazine/weak magazine spring simply moving too slow to lift the ejector quickly enough, rounded off rear edge of the ejector arm....which could be squared up if not too bad, damaged lower edge to the breech face allowing the ejector to slip off. Could also be fixed....gunsmith job that last one though. So what exactly is going on with the ejector not holding the slide open after the last shot?

Remember, we don't have the pistol in hand...so your description is important.

As I understand what you are saying....the trigger/hammer works properly in double action mode....double action is where the hammer is down. Pulling the trigger first cocks the hammer then releases is. Two actions....cock and release...double action.

Single action is where the hammer is cocked and pulling the trigger releases it to fall and strike the firing pin. When in single action the hammer should not move rearward at all as the trigger is pulled. Here is where it isn't clear to me what exactly is going on. Are you saying that the hammer slips out of fully all the way cocked requiring the trigger to once again have to cock and release it or is it something else. Precisely, what is the hammer doing when you pull the trigger with the hammer already fully cocked?

There should be no popping noise, no cracking noise...as you begin to pull the trigger the rear of the trigger bar should move upward and engage the hook on the cocking piece. It should remain engaged until the hammer drops. You can observe all of this with the grips off. There should be no noise at all, the trigger bar will pull the top of the cocking piece forward which will cause the sear to release the hammer. There should be no noise in double action either.

There are 9 decocking levers of very slightly different tapers/widths and their job is to precisely time the drop of the hammer when the safety is rotated to safe. If the hammer is released too early the firing pin won't be caught nor will the safety drum be in position to block the hammer from hitting the firing pin. The proper release point is as the lower edge of the safety reaches the 1/2 way point across the red dot. You do have a red dot on the slide don't you? If not, that could be the entire problem. Without the red dot the safety won't know when it is half way across..... Could the wrong decocking lever be in the pistol? Could the safety be rotating toward safe as the slide moves forward. You will have to carefully inspect the pistol and report those kinds of things to us. There is a spring loaded pin that engages two internal indentations on the safety drum. The purpose of the plungers is to lock the safety in the fire or safe position and keep it there until the shooter manually rotates it. If the spring is weak, the plunger worn or the detents worn it is possible that the safety might be rotating down toward safe as the slide moves forward. Check that when you have a no fire. Safety on....there should be no firing pin contact. Pictures in a minute. 1917

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The magazine follower should lift the rear of the ejector arm like so.
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In single action the trigger bar should look like this. Note it is below the hook on the cocking piece and unseen.....the hammer block lower leg is up.

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As soon as the trigger begins to move the trigger bar should lift and securely engage the hook on the cocking piece/sear. Continued pulling of the trigger should release the hammer with no noise of any kind. Only a smooth pull until the cocking piece break from the hammer foot.

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My hammer momentarily drops all the way down where it hits the rear of the firing pin. The lower hammer block leg is still up. Note the position of the trigger bar, finger lifted. I'm holding the hammer all the way forward for the photo.

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The hammer then backs off to its normal uncocked position and the hammer block leg has dropped down. The pistol is now in the double action position. Note the position of the trigger bar. Up and ready for a DA pull.. So what is different about any of this on your pistol?
 

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The problem is that when I pull the trigger in single action the gun is like decocking and doesn’t shoot and It comes back in double action
I do not understand this description. When the hammer is cocked, pulling the trigger should drop the hammer and it should hit the firing pin. When the safety is set to safe you cannot manually cock the hammer if the fire control components are properly installed. So in single action, the hammer should be fully cocked, safety set to fire...pulling the trigger should release the hammer allowing it to fall against the firing pin. No noise except the impact of the falling hammer against the firing pin/rear of safety drum. You will need to clarify exactly what the hammer is doing.

I believe you can remove the decocking lever for test purposes to rule it out. You will lose your decocking feature but nothing will be harmed. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. If the hammer block isn't working properly it can let the hammer follow the slide forward and there will be no single action, cocked hammer. If that is what is happening the cure might be as simple as a new spring for the hammer block. Of course parts might be worn or damaged or missing also. Did this pistol ever work correctly? 1917
 

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Discussion Starter • #37 6 d ago

Martin said:
You are totally wrong. Be care of our US- members ;).
On your pictures it's a PPK, But I'm perhaps wrong caused to the angle you've did the pic. IS THE SLIDE BROKEN? What's the problem? I'm unable to realize your problem...
Please understand: Nobody here ever handled you gun him-/herself.

PS: Realised => It's a PPK/S...
excuse me for my english, it is difficult for me because I am Italian so I am sorry if I am not clear. The problem is this : when I load the gun and I put the bullet in the barrel the gun is normally in single action obvisuly. But, when I am going to pull the trigger there is like a " crack " , something like a break in the gears, and the hammer comes back in double action without shooting. So I can shoot only in double action. I don't know how to explain very well because it is complicated to explain. In short the gun doesn't work in Single Action.
the other problem is about the hold open: it doesn't work because of the ejector


1917-1911,

Based upon post #37.

I understood that Gaetano would load the gun.

Slide is in battery and hammer is cocked.
Gaetono would pull the trigger and hear some audible noise "click".

"the gun is normally in single action obvisuly. But, when I am going to pull the trigger there is like a " crack " , something like a break in the gears, and the hammer comes back in double action without shooting."

My interpretation:, the hammer falls but catches part way.
He then pulled the trigger (called that double action).
Gun fires.

He said the gun fires from double action .
But did not describe guns behavior in the double action firing cycle.

Perhaps Gaetano could add some more description.
 

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XRing....this is what makes internet diagnostics so difficult. Your assessment is very good of the problem of assessing an issue and making recommendations when you don't have the pistol in hand. MGMike send me the hammer below one time, I installed it and the dogleg was way off. It wasn't anywhere close to the one I had but it would take a gunsmith very familiar with these pistols to know how to make it fit and function properly. I wouldn't have any idea although I can see and understand how it should work.

Unfortunately with a used pistol none of us can have any idea of what might have been done to it over its history. All we can do is ask questions, look at photos, show photos of properly working models. This can be a bit frustrating when you have an owner who really doesn't have a good idea of what you are asking. I don't understand why Walther doesn't have some recommendations for how to repair one of these in Italy. Crete in Greece has run into similar issues.....no parts, no advice.

It seems we could get to the bottom of the ejector/hold open issue.

SA trigger pull seems it would be much simpler than DA issues. I have heard from time to time that the hammer block if removed can allow the pistol to go full auto. On the other hand you can resolve that issue by only loading one round at a time while the part is out. Is this a trigger issue, trigger spring issue, trigger bar issue, cocking piece issue, interface between the sear/hammer toe, hammer block issue, decocking lever issue....? What if the decocking lever were to be removed and the pistol tested for SA hammer drop. No joy, put it back in there. Then remove the hammer block and drop the hammer in SA. Problem solved or no joy. Don't load the pistol....just test function to see what the grinding is about. I'd have the grips off and be looking at the interface between the trigger bar and cocking piece. Is the retaining rivet broken, worn, bent on one side? Are any parts out of alignment or loose.

I'd take the slide and grips off, cock the hammer and with the hammer under thumb control have a look at how these parts are moving. I don't know if this pistol has every worked since Gaetano took possession....dove 'e scritto. Anyway, it is a mechanical device so whatever the issue is it should be able to be resolved. 1917

97269
 

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Perhaps a good step by step statement of how fire control components works or should work is in order. I'll give it a try.

In DA:

1. The top hook at the rear of the trigger bar is up, ready to engage the matching hook on the cocking piece but lightly moving the trigger moves nothing but the trigger and trigger bar.

2. Pulling the trigger further causes the trigger bar hook to engage the cocking piece and begin to rotate it toward the muzzle end of the pistol.

3. The first part the cocking piece engages is the dog-leg on the front of the hammer which begins to rotate the hammer rearward.

4. The next part engaged by the cocking piece is the lower front edge of the decocking lever. The lever is pressed rearward which raises its nose.

5. The cocking piece next engages the lower leg of the hammer block and begins lifting it to disengage blocking.

6. As all of this is occurring...the hammer is being rotated more and more rearward. With DA almost completed, what releases the hammer? The cocking piece reaches a point where it can no longer engage the rearward moving dog-leg. The leg slips off the rear of the cocking piece and the hammer falls.

7. The decocking lever is freed from engagement with the cocking piece, the hammer block is held in the up position where it cannot block the hammer and the hammer falls all the way forward where it would strike the firing pin.

8. As the trigger is let forward the trigger resets when the dog-leg can once again pop forward and rest over the top of the cocking piece. The sear ledge is never engaged by the hammer toe in DA action. The hammer block drops down to block the fall of the hammer should something hit it like dropping the gun. The decocking lever is free to flop front to rear.

SA movement:

1. As the hammer moves rearward...by slide or thumb several things happen almost at once. First, the dog leg doesn't do anything.

2. The toe of the hammer lifts the cocking piece, which pushes the lower edge of the decocking lever again raising the top edge.

3. At the same time the lower leg of the hammer block is engaged by the cocking piece causing it to rise up out of the blocking position and

4. on the right side of the cocking piece the front edge begins to cam against the raised portion of the trigger bar which does two things.

5. It shoves the trigger bar forward which pulls the trigger rearward and at the same time forces the hook on the trigger bar down and away from the cocking piece hook.

6. While all of this is happening the toe of the hammer is inching further and further along the bottom of the cocking piece until it can pop in place above the bottom sear ledge where it rests holding the hammer cocked.

7. This then requires the shooter to pull the trigger which raises the rear of the trigger bar to engage the cocking piece.

8. As the trigger is pulled, the hammer is dropped when the cocking piece has been raised enough by the pulling trigger bar to disengage from the hammer toe. The hammer falls.

9. With the slide off, trigger held to the rear the hammer cannot be re-cocked because the trigger bar is still engaging the cocking piece and holding it out of the way of the hammer foot. To solve this....the slide engages the trigger bar as it is moving rearward and knocks it downward disconnecting the hook from the cocking piece.

With the safety set to safe the safety drum presses down on the rear of the top of the decocking lever which then lifts the cocking piece so that the toe of the hammer cannot be caught by the sear ledge.

Did I get that right?

After carefully inspecting everything for wear, bends, cracks, etc. I'd remove the decocking lever and see it that eliminates any binding and issues. If not, reinstall. Next, I would remove the hammer block and spring and test dropping the hammer in SA catching it with my thumb. The toe of the hammer does make a clear click when it drop into place. After that I'd have to see if anything under the slide seemed to be out of order or was showing undue wear.

I don't see much that can stop the fall of the hammer in SA. A bent dogleg might be able to catch on top of the cocking piece. If the decocking lever is bent or has a big burr it might catch the hammer but would in DA also. Engagement of the hammer toe and sear might be off and allowing the hammer to fall before the cocking piece has sufficiently raised the hammer block. This is where a gunsmith earns his money. 1917
 

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I still think it's a problem with the sear, but I'm the least experienced person on this forum.
I think I am going with Gene, it is a timing issue due to perhaps someone working on the hammer toe/sear engagement. Hammer being released too early and before the hammer block is properly positioned. Mine and Gene's 2 cents. 1917
 

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I would look to a recoil spring that’s causing the slide to slam the frame too hard or it’s so stiff that the pistol doesn’t cycle fully.

I have had that happen on my pistols ...
 

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I don't really see anything that jumps out at me regarding the SA hammer drop problem. I assume the pistol once worked fine, no parts have been changed but we haven't heard that exactly from the OP.

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My IA but the OP's hammer toe seems to be caught properly on the sear ledge when in SA. I can't tell anything about the engagement other than the toe is engaged. Perhaps if the hammer were removed and photos of the toe were shown we could see something. The grinding, popping is still a mystery to me.
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Position of the hammer block, pistol in SA. The trigger block will need to be raised by the cocking piece in order to disengage it.
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The hammer block in the raised position.



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Initially, the hammer will fall all the way forward and against the firing pin as shown above, then it will rebound slightly and be blocked by the hammer block. Note position of the hammer block. Shown all the way up as pushed up by the top of the cocking piece.

I think I would remove the disconnect lever and see if that changed anything. If not, put it back in and remove the hammer block. Note, to not load the magazine with no hammer block installed. If test firing load only one round. You really should be able to see just about everything going on with the slide and grips off. We are unable to tell anything about the sear/hammer toe engagement. Does the hammer manually cock smoothly....no problems with the mainspring/spur.

What is different between SA and DA? The only thing I see is that in DA the sear ledge is never engaged by the hammer toe. That's all I have until the OP comes back with more info. 1917
 

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Now you've done it....I would look for wear spots that seem excessive.....mainspring hammer strut (binding), hammer block (binding type wear), decocking lever for any excessive wear, etc. Also how about a really good photo of the sear ledge under the cocking piece and the toe of the hammer where it engages the sear ledge. Your problems seem to be in SA only and the noise/binding issue seems to be related to that action only. The only difference between DA and SA that I can think of offhand is that the toe of the hammer is caught by the sear and is not when in DA. I think the hammer might move a bit further rearward when in SA which might have something to do with the mainspring/strut.

Did this pistol ever work properly in SA? If nothing seems out of sorts I'd reassemble without the decocker and test the action. If that didn't show any problems I would reinstall it and remove the hammer block. Note; you can check function of the pistol in SA with no hammer block but if you test fire use only one cartridge at a time. It has been reported that the pistol can go full auto with no hammer block. I don't know that for sure but the hammer block does block the hammer between shots....so, one round at a time. That should tell you all you need to know anyway. I still think you might be able to assess the problem with the slide and grips off but testing with the slide on is good. I would leave the grips off so I could see the inner parts movement. I don't think you will be able to assess the hammer block and perhaps a wrong spring there.....you would have to be very experienced in that regard. But you could certainly remove it to see if SA is smooth with no premature hammer drop. I'm not really sure what the hammer block would have to do with the pistol dropping to DA, that would likely be more of an issue with decocking lever or the hammer toe/sear engagement. At least now you can have a good look at both and perhaps be able to tell if someone has been messin' around where they shouldn't have been. 1917



The hammer toe should be square and without a lot of wear or damage to it. Note the difference in the adjustment of the dogleg. My hammer is on the right, another that would not function in the pistol is on the left. The issue was the dogleg not being properly adjusted for my cocking piece. You would have to know what you are doing to correct stuff like this. Gunsmith time. Regarding your hammer toe look for damage like someone filing on it. Likewise the sear ledge under the cocking piece should be clean and straight and not filed down or rounded off where the hammer toe rests. In SA, pulling the trigger pulls the trigger bar forward. The rear of the trigger bar engages the cocking piece and begins to rotate the top forward. This lifts the inner cocking piece and sear ledge. The hammer is released, or should be, when the cocking piece/sear lifts too high for the hammer toe to remain caught. The hammer toe breaks from engagement and the hammer falls. All of this is carefully timed so that the hammer block has been lifted out of the way of the falling hammer. You can see all of this with the slide off and the grips off. Cock the hammer, place your thumb over it lightly and pull the trigger slowly.....what is snapping and why is the hammer being prematurely released? Do it 100 times until you figure it out. Worn or damaged parts might be able to be corrected and if not you will need new parts.
 

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Have a look up in the FAQ section as well....especially any thread by MGMIKE regarding anything related to PP function. Attached above is one regarding the hammer not staying cocked. Mike was far above average in his knowledge of Interarm pistols. In fact he was quite the expert. He is missed. 1917
 

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Another from MGMike, unfortunately I have one up there regarding a problem with a PP and the hammer not always staying in SA....it had some good photos and MGMike sent me a hammer block and new spring that cured the issue. The problem was the spring. I had a photo of the good and the bad but they were hosted at photobucket which threw us all under the buss. I still have the photos somewhere but what they illustrate is that by eye you would not be able to differentiate between the bad spring and the good one. Mike thought that perhaps the bad spring got mixed up with the hammer dog leg spring at some point back in time. Changing that one tiny spring solved the issue of the hammer following the slide instead of being cocked. I'd have to really put on my thinking cap again to assess exactly how the hammer block was keeping the hammer from being caught by sear but it was.

Well, now that I think about it that spring presses the lower leg of the cocking piece down and a weak spring could allow the hammer block leg to bounce which could allow the cocking piece to move/bounce and not catch the hammer toe while firing. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter · #77 ·
Hello Sir, Thank you very much for your support, It is very important and precious for me and I am sorry if I am writing now, after one day, but I had some issues. Anyway I carefully read your answers and I took some pictures of the hammer ( even if by eye is impossible to say if is damaged as you said ). As soon as possible I will remove the hammer block as you said to test and I will do the tests to understand what is the problem in this issue.. The problematic is about getting the spare parts, because I am in Europe, Italy, and here I can't find spare parts for thi particular gun.. It would be helpful knowing if the German version spare parts are compatible with my gun.. Any way I am going to sand here some pictures I took of the parts ( sorry for my english )
 

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Discussion Starter · #80 ·
I toke this picture right now. In your opinion, is that gap between the hammer toe and the cocking piece normal ?
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