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Discussion Starter #1
Well guys I thought I would throw this info. out to anyone new to the sport and wanting to add more accuracy to his or her scores.

The use of snap caps [ in your semi-auto ] or the use of a revolver [ caliber unimportant ] is a fantastic tool allowing you to fine tune your trigger pull. I have posted this info before, but after seeing it work again with one of my new female students - I just had to re post the info.

The female student came to me and wanted to sign up for some lessons to better her technique. She has a nice balanced stance, but needed some small adjustments to her grip to increase consistency. Her grip, after the first lesson was like a vise.....and she had no problems handling her 380 semi-auto but accuracy was a real problem. Like most new shooters she had developed a pretty bad anticipation reaction and was pushing the pistol.

The second lesson.....I took her back to a .45 Acp revolver, where the recoil was a lot "more" than her .380.........but allowed me to leave empty chambers. Well, the shooter came face to face with her pushing when that .45 Acp landed on an empty chamber. It was DRAMATIC !! She started laughing at how much she was pushing or jerking at the trigger, but the same was not really noticeable firing a fully loaded gun.

We spent the next 30 minutes........me loading the gun leaving empty chambers along the way......until at last she had learned to relax and reduced her pushing on the gun a considerable amount.

Next we loaded up the .380 ........ and with the new skills fresh in her mind, she proceeded to drill the X-ring -- shot after shot !!! I even started her on some "speed drills" and she surprised me at her accuracy.

Sometimes all a shooter needs is to witness for themselves, the degree at which they are jerking the trigger. The empty chambers routine is just ONE method for demonstrating this. A laser mounted on your pistol can also be used to watch for the movement -- but it is not as convincing as when you feel the "push" on an empty chamber.

Try this anytime --- you want to fine tune or improve your trigger pull. I will use this rountine on myself every 6 months or so, to keep ahead of any developing "bad Habits" .
Using a .22 pistol will also help with your trigger pull, but works on a different aspect of the trigger pull movement. It will help smooth your squeeze during rapid fire engagements.

Hope this info helps someone else, as much as it did for this new & now proud combat shooter.

JF.
 

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Sniper350....thanks for this post....
I miss some of the "old" guys around here.... things just not the same without your insight and knowledge....
I am currently paying off on my 2nd P7M8 on layaway... but next will be either a nice rife or I have my eyes on a Gemini Custom Ruger SP101... I met a guy at the range not to long ago from PCT and he let me shoot his Gemini.... OMG what a blast this thing was... and yes I sure noticed a difference on that revolver
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Uncut - Glad to be of some help !

That Ruger Sp101 sure is a well built and especially tough revolver. The range I shoot at rents handguns......and they claim the SP101 is the toughest handgun they have in their inventory [ based on repair Doc.s ]

I know this forum is dedicated to the semi-auto Walther - but sometimes we have to re-visit the basics in order to get better as a shooter. And what better way to do that......then to practice with a well made revolver. With out the Movement of a slide pushing the handgun around ......... a revolver allows the shooter to better feel the trigger action and the grip control he has on the weapon.

Anyone who shoots both [ semi-autos & revolvers ] will tell you there is quite a difference in the "shooting experience" with both of these guns. I love my Walther .40 cal., but not to the exclusion of some of my beloved revolvers. I feel there is a distinct advantage in owning and shooting both ---when it comes to doing well in competition. Anyone who has the chance to pick up a used S&W Model 625, will have added a wonderful tool to their shooting Hobby. This .45 Acp revolver is built on the tough N-Frame design and will last a lifetime. The milder charge [ by comparison ] of the .45 Acp doesn't plague this revolver with "Back Strap Flame Cutting" like other magnum type revolvers { ie. 357 mag.s }

Shipwreck- Thanks for the kind words


JF.
 

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Sniper, thanks for another informative post. It got me thinking. Sooner or later I had planned on picking up a S&W M27 or a Python if one comes my way. Do you know of either of these suffering from the flame cutting problem you mentioned?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
MLB-

Flame cutting is a result of two things:

1. Magnum loads
2. Larger than necessary barrel to cylinder GAP


What you want to do before buying any revolver is make these few simple tests:

1. Check for end-shake - That is movement of the cylinder from "front to back" when the revolver is in a lock-up position
Ideally you want Zero end shake. However, a slight movement less than 1 mm "may" be acceptable.

2. Check for cylinder alignment : Lock-up each cylinder charge hole ......and with a tiny bore led bore light look down the barrel. Each cylinder chamber should line up closely with the barrel. A visual inspection is good enough, although they sell Caliber specific rods that will check for any offset.

3. Lock-up: Should be tight, but a slight movement of the cylinder from side to side is OK and even desireable. This "tolerance" allows the bullet to "snap" the cylinder and barrel into aligment at the split second the bullet jumps the gap.

4. Barrel to Cylinder GAP. Get yourself a feeler gauge. THis Gap should not measure more than .oo8, although S&W will tell you they will accept a revolver with .010 bbl/cyl. Gap. It is my oppinion that this large of a gap is bad news.
A gap between .004 and .006 is perfect
Too tight a gap, and the revolver will start to jam as the cylinder face starts to drag on the barrel when the gun heats up or gets dirty. Check each cylinder charge hole to the barrel ....This is IMPORTANT as it will tell you if the cylinder is tracking square with the barrel. I do own some revolvers with a .002 " Gap and this distance borders on too tight.

Flame cutting happens when this Gap, we have been talking about, allows too much hot gas to hit the top of the back strap of the revolver. It acts like a tiny blow torch and will cut the metal over time.

Please note: many revolvers will show a tiny amount of flame cutting and this can be considered normal. Do not attempt to clean this area too well, as the carbon build up acts like a buffer for the metal and will inhibit further damage. Avoid any handguns that shows a deep groove above the barrel on the back strap.

Lastly, check the revolver's forcing cone on the barrel for any signs of cracks or uneven wear. This is the area of the barrel that the bullet jumps into when it leaves the cylinder. The famous S&W model 19 .357 magnum was known for having problems with cracked forcing cones. Later issues of this model made some changes and corrected this problem.

Hope some of this info. helps ............

JF.
 

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Just my 2 cents is that the empty chamber thing works great. I use it with my wife. I also let her, and myself for that matter, dry fire an air soft to make sure we don't have much movement.
One other point, if you have a 357, instead of skipping some chambers, I load some 38 into it. Some people have more of a push reaction with higher caliber loads, and this helps them to notice it, it also is a lot of fun at the range.
Wage out:)
 

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Thanks Sniper. I was wondering if it was a material defect, but the gap makes more sense.

Thanks also to the moderators for tolerating a bit of drift...
 

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I have been known to load 3-4 magazines with snap caps in them at varried places. Then toss them in a bag shake and pull one random one out. Then shoot much as Sniper said.

I also get a failure to fire drill out it:)
 

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That drill with the snap caps is the same thing my wife did at range today for the police academy. It seems she now understands that she has a push flinch problem.
Wage out
 

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Discussion Starter #11
One of the biggest contributing factors of this type of marksmanship problem is

NOISE

I always advise new shooters to wear the best Hearing protection available........ that means a NRR rating of 29 or 30 db. If the shooter is shooting with a group and needs to be able to clearly hear commands from the Range Officer, I will advise the shooter to wear the foam inserts under the head gear set. To hear commands, you need only to push the head gear aside from one ear, while still having the foam insert as constant protection. This double hearing protection allows the shooter to better concentrate and helps to reduce the anticipation reaction. I believe it is the "Bang" that causes most of the flinching..........more so than the recoil IMHO.

Reduce the Noise............. and you will have taken a big step in reducing the flinch!

JF.
 

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They have the new head gear sets they are electronic and allow you to hear the person talking next to you and cancel out the loud sounds of guns.
Now if only Bose would work on their noise cancellation for shooters, then that would be cool.
Wageout:;):
 
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