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Discussion Starter #41 (Edited)
have you had any time to shoot the new setup? once its said and done i'd like to know what the final components end up being and how much trouble you went through.

Yes I have fired it quite a bit. I had also banged a similar mounted base onto a steel anvil 1000 times and it never let go. I hit it pretty hard too....swagged the slide material but the part never separated from the slide rail.

What you need:

A red dot, a light one. The one I purchased is one of the least expensive of what are considered good ones...i.e., one that is well made and will hold zero. Shield SMSc (compact) with battery and mounting screws.

Small Tubes of JB Weld and a small tube of impact resistant Gorilla Glue.

A strip of aluminum, any kind. I used 1/8" x 1" x 48" from Lowes. Shortest piece they sold and cost $10. Bought a 1/16" piece today of same for $5. I will test that for a thinner and lighter mount. Let you know soon if it is strong enough for threading.

Strip of paint edging tape, something straight to screed the JBW, like a box cutter razor. Some emery paper 360 to 400 grit. One sheet is plenty. Use it for dressing the base, cleaning and removing construction scratches.

You will need to mark the outline of the red dot onto the aluminum base. A sharp pencil works fine. Also locate the mounting holes. You will need to drill holes precisely and thread them for the screws that come with the sight. I'll have to look back to see the size of the hole that needs to be drilled and the thread.

You will need to clean the top of the rail of all oil before installing the JBWeld. Bottom of the alum mount too before placing it on the monkey glue.

I also use a table belt sander to quickly shape the aluminum base. You could also file it. One of the little belt sanders has a 100 uses, doesn't cost much nor do the belts. Woodworking shops, Lowes, Home Depot....all have them. Should be $100 or less. You don't need something expensive for how this works....there is always flex in the belt. Belts can be purchased in a wide variety of grits. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #42


1/8" aluminum base, mounting screws installed, front to the right end.



Shield SMSc installed on the base plate.



The portion of the rail taped off, cleaned of all oil, ready for JBWeld to be installed for a level bed.



JBWeld in 50/50 amount of steel/hardner, thoroughly mixed with a pencil tip and then applied to the rail.



JBWeld after being screed with a razor blade to level it and remove excess material. I will repeat this process again to make sure there are no low spots, let it cure 24 hours and then sand lightly with 360 grit emery paper to remove any high spots. Don't grind it down, just enough to make sure it is smooth with no high spots.

After this you clean it and the base making sure you have marked the center line of the base and dry practiced installing it several times to understand exactly what is required to center it on the rail.

Then run a bead of Gorilla Glue down the center of the rail and immediately press the bottom of the cleaned base into it. Press down firmly again making sure the base is centered. Don't worry about pressing too hard, you want the base to seat on the level JBWeld base. Then the sight will sit level. You have 5 seconds. So mark the slide or a piece of tape, the sight base...and practice before applying the monkey glue.

Screw on the sight, load and zero. 1917
 

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Just lost 30 min of effort toward a reply......bah!!!!! If your log in expires while off getting photos you can lose your post. Post and edit always if a lengthy reply is necessary....how many times do i have to learn this! 1917

Click the "remember me" box when you log-in. I never get logged out, been logged in for 3 months.
 

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Discussion Starter #45
Regarding the sight's red dot size, this particular one comes in 4 moa or 8 moa. For target shooting choose the 4 moa. If I were shooting steel challenges I'd want the 8 moa. This one is on constantly, has a long battery life and automatically brightens or dims the dot intensity. It seems to work well. 4 moa, 4" diameter at 100 yds. 1" at 25 yds. I don't believe any of these types of sights have any magnification. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #47
I need to add one modification to the base...a small hole needs to be drilled at the right front and over the extractor pin. Access is needed to tap the roll pin out if you want to clean or remove it. Today I will install another base on the 5" pistol. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #48


Bases are easy to make, just take your red dot, lay one side parallel and even with a stock piece of aluminum strip and outline it. The forward hole is for access to the roll pin that holds the extractor. you can actually pull the part out from the bottom but it sometimes might be easier to knock it down a bit with a 1/6" punch. Therefore, the hole. 1/8" pilot hole for M4 screws.

I've either got to get straight bits or a new chuck...I gave up on the drill press and got out a hand drill. On a 1:20" scale the base is 18 units wide...the middle is 9. Measure from the same side for front and rear. I'm making small indentations at the exact center, front and rear to aid in placement. The rail has five valleys....guess which one is the center. I will put a piece of tape over it and mark it for speedy centering.

This sight base is 1/16" thick and while you can strip an M4 screw...you have to work at it and you will know you are doing it. Otherwise it is plenty strong. I think If I were mounting this sight on a centerfire pistol I'd use the 1/8" thick material. The 1/16" give you about three threads. It is thin and weighs 3 grams. The 1/8" one weighed 7 grams if I recall correctly. So the whole sight should now weight 19 grams. The pistol has no problems cycling the 23 gram 1/8" one and I might decide to make one of those anyway....depends on whether or not I think this one looks better. I think it is strong enough...but definitely not as strong as the 1/8" one when it comes to mounting, removing, mounting, removing. Shot the 5" the other day...it is really accurate but the suppressor is in the way again. I'll have to decide do I want to swap and re zero or just get another dot and if so....same one or not. I'm not able to quite get this dot to dim as much as i'd like for target shooting...like looking directly at a 1/4" target. I'm sure the slide will cycle a 1 oz dot. How about a small, 1 oz scope of 2x or 3x power. Anyone make that? 1917
 

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Great work there 1917. Don't know prezactly what's happening with using your drill press...too much runout or bit walking.

BUT, when I'm drilling holes in magazines, I have a 8ell of a time getting the bit to 'not bend' or 'walk'.....and my drill press has more runout than I'd like too.

The holes are located on the corner of the mag and the corners are 'rounded'. :eek:

I do my best to get the magazine rotated and held in a position with the 'happy spot' exactly 90 degrees to the drill bit. If it's not perfect and I use a regular drill bit the bit will try to walk. I hate it when that happens.

I switched to using 'stubby' 1/8" drill bits to make my initial hole. NO walking with the little stubby things.

Here's a link to some on Amazon. I was actually lucky enough to find these stubby bits offered if 'singles', which was great, cuz I only wanted the 1/8.

https://www.amazon.com/COMOWARE-Stubby-Drill-4-Inch-Change/dp/B07YBWZQMC/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=614WXKHZQDQC&keywords=stubby+drill+bit+set+for+metal&qid=1584967929&sprefix=stubby+drill,aps,176&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEzT1pIRDE2QzI0TTNTJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDA2NTg1N0ZOVUs0Uk1KMkQ3JmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTAzNzQzNjQxRFMxVEc5VE5BVzIxJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Most of the time it is due to an inexpensive rig....someone gave me mine. WEN something...probably $100 or so. It functions fine, has 10 speeds or five speeds but it isn't a $1,000 machine with a cast iron top. The top portion seems to be pretty stable and not out of round. I don't have a dial gauge, need to get one. But the collet wobble a bit and of course that allows the drill bit to wobble. I'm not a machinist and have looked at a number of videos on how to correct this. It is also easy to bend small bits by applying too much pressure. I took the collet off yesterday and looked at how the taper fits since I was actually able to wobble the chuck by hand just enough to feel it. These things fit on a tapered shaft and if they don't fit properly they will wobble and if you don't have a milling machine you can screw it up worse. Mine is binding appx. 80% toward the bottom of the taper and not seating along the entire taper.

That's what you get with cheap stuff. On the other hand for $250 to $500 you can get a better one. If you aren't a machinist I'd advise asking about for the quality that might be needed or what you are trying to do. Drilling fairly hard steel, slanted or rounded steel is difficult enough to drill but you need good equipment and the knowledge of how to properly drill. Sharp bit and proceed slowly. I'd love to have a good machine shop. I've really enjoyed my career as a landscape architect but i think I'd have enjoyed being a machinist as well.

Bet you can purchase some old, but heavy duty and precise equipment if you know where to look. 1917
 

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Yep, the right amount of pressure and speed are critical to drilling properly.....not to mention a sharp bit.

General, softer materials use a faster drill speed than harder materials. Amount of pressure applied varies with type of material as well.

When drilling steel, I like to watch the little curls of metal and the color.....blue is usually not good. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #52 (Edited)
OK, good news. The test slide part with the base mounted and whacked 1,000 times let go with the application of heat. It took a pretty good warming up of the aluminum base before the monkey glue let go but it came off pretty cleanly. This is good as should I strip a thread or want to change to another red dot with another base requirement. Clean and apply another base on top of a new run of monkey glue and I would be good to go again. Accidentally get your base on crooked, soften the glue, remove the base....re-apply this time getting it on straight. Having really whacked on this I was a bit concerned the part might not be removable without possible damage to the slide. The JBW stayed put. You would of course have to block the heat from your rear polymer sight. 1917



This one.
 

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Discussion Starter #53
If anyone is trying to make some bases here is a bit more info.



With your threading kit you will have a page showing what drill size to use for the pilot hole and what tap to use. For the M4 screws, 1/8" pilot hole and then the M4 tap. Practice and test threads below. Screws were fitted and tightened to test strength...there seemed to be plenty of threads for a good tight tightening.



Since the aluminum for this application is so thin applying a lubricant and working the tap back and forth doesn't seem to be necessary as would be the case for steel. Pay attention to holding the part square with the thin piece you are threading. These isn't much hole depth to help guide you.



Practice laying the base onto the slide squarely. The base is 18 marks wide on a 1" = 20 scale so 9 marks is the center. The right side as pictures is the original stock edge. I measure the front and rear off of it. 9 marks over. The top rail on the slide conveniently has five grooves which means #3 is the center. I marked it to aid in placing the base precisely in the 5 seconds that I have to position the base in the monkey glue. Practice to get it right before the final attempt and don't get shaky.



The bottom of this sight looks like this. The round thing is the battery...good for three to four years. Common 2032 battery. The other end of the base is sealed and contains the LED bulb/adjustment screws. The sight also comes with a polymer 1* base. I didn't find it necessary to use. But it is a pretty part with four corner posts for centering the sight and is predrilled. I'd probably install it if it wen't tapered just for a better seal and for looks.



Sitting loosely on the slide. I have not installed and might not. I want to have another look at a couple of additional red dots and they likely won't fit this base in exactly the same manner. Since I'm not sure what will loosen the monkey glue....I'll hold off at this point other that to reassemble the pistol, place the sight on it with the 1/16" base and photo it. I'm thinking a bit of heat to the aluminum base will soften the glue and make it release. And, I still have the old test piece to test see if this will work. If so and without a lot of damage to the base then I might install it....or not. The new 1/16" base weighs 3 grams. Pretty dang light.

Yes, the monkey glue will let go with a bit of propane heat. 1917
 

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Discussion Starter #54
OK, help me decide.....here is the 5" with the 1/16" thick mounting plate monkey glued down, sight installed. I need shorter screws. Thick 1/8" mount or the 1/16" mount???? I can see right now this is going to cost me $300 for another red dot and thread adapter. :) Unless Oldfart has so many he decides to mail me one...after spraying it down thoroughly to kill all viruses. 1917



 

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Discussion Starter #56 (Edited)
OK, that's one vote. BTW, the sight came with small, clear washers so I installed them after polishing a bit of the screw length off. The tread was previously barely touching the slide. No need for that. The sight also comes with a small wheel you stick the adjustment wrench for so you can precisely turn the dial. OF and I don't need any such foolishness....especially with .22 ammo. 1917
 

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I love 'red dots' cuz I am afflicted with CSS, which is further exacerbated by my CRS. Like you said earlier, I/you can clearly see the dot and the target while looking thru the upper portion of your glasses. :D

While I'm shooting, my CHS is a blessing.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
I'm trying to figure out how this sight knows how bright it is. I want to tone the dot brightness down just a bit for indoor or late evening shooting. I can't see a window for light...how does it know??? :D 1917
 

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Hee, hee.....I don't know how it knows.

Here's an idea. Mount one or more flood lights beside/around the target, with the lights shinning toward you. Now point the pistol at the target. I'll bet the 'Mr. know it all 'dot'' will dim in response to the bright lights. :D
 

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Discussion Starter #60
I'm thinking it works just the opposite. In bright light the dot brightens and dims in low light. I put a piece of tape over the dot area and it did get dimmer...just not as dim as I wanted it to get. It's ok but I learned long ago with and adjustable one to lower the brightness to level 2 or 3 and you could really see the target much better....this is for bench rest type shooting. Where you put the dot right on a 1/4" point. 4 moa is small on this sight but I want the dot a bit dimmer. For quick shooting or bright daylight you need it bright. 1917
 
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