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Discussion Starter #1
Walther says it is a pistol for all climates and circumstances. Is it, in your opinion, the equal of a Glock in durability, reliability, dependability, and simplicity? How tough is this pistol?
 

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I've always babied my P99's... but I've seen some tests/videos that suggest the P99 is just as tough as anything else in it's class.
 

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What's with all the P99 stuff? :D

Just go shoot the damned thing to your heart's content..it's not gonna break, provided you don't run +p+ ammo or unknown quality reloads in it.

And don't throw it in the mud and sand and then shoot it like those jackasses on youtube do....they get paid to tear up guns in order to make n00bs think a gun is "tough"...:rolleyes:

Of course it's always fun when DemolitionRanch fubars a high point LOL
 

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While my P99 and P99c haven't seen quite the daily "testing" my PPQs have, they too have been exposed to daily carry rigors including exposure to: salt water immersion, fresh water immersion, canal mud, dirt, sand, beach sand, dust, sweat, rain, heat and humidity plus the vagaries of EDC in Florida.

Keep in mind the P99 was developed as a military/police weapon. I find it better suited to those needs than a Glock. (I carry my PPQs because I am much more proficient with them due to their slide stop design. But that is fodder for another thread.)

I'd say it is tough.
 
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... Is it, in your opinion, the equal of a Glock in durability, reliability, dependability, and simplicity? ...
For a wide variety of reasons I am not fond of Glocks and don't carry one. But to be brutally honest, strictly limited to "durability, reliability, dependability, and simplicity", Glock is in a class by itself. No handgun today is its equal.

JMO

M
 

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Best way to find out is to shoot one and run it hard. That said the only issue I've had with my first P99 in 11,000 rounds is a cracked trigger shoe (and I'm willing to blame that on what some might call excessive dry fire reps of the DA pull). Not that I consider that a high round count. I'm planning on switching my newer one to carry use soon, and then I'll do all my shooting with the old one and see what happens as the round count climbs.

ETA - To more directly answer your question, I don't see the P99 as being any more likely to fail than most other striker fired guns, including Glock. That said, anything can break, and I more or less expect guns I shoot a lot to break parts and need maintenance. The big advantage Glock has isn't necessarily durability. It's the fact that the user can replace any part by themselves, and those parts are cheap. Neither can be said of Walther, unfortunately.
 

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Best way to find out is to shoot one and run it hard. That said the only issue I've had with my first P99 in 11,000 rounds is a cracked trigger shoe (and I'm willing to blame that on what some might call excessive dry fire reps of the DA pull). Not that I consider that a high round count. I'm planning on switching my newer one to carry use soon, and then I'll do all my shooting with the old one and see what happens as the round count climbs.

ETA - To more directly answer your question, I don't see the P99 as being any more likely to fail than most other striker fired guns, including Glock. That said, anything can break, and I more or less expect guns I shoot a lot to break parts and need maintenance. The big advantage Glock has isn't necessarily durability. It's the fact that the user can replace any part by themselves, and those parts are cheap. Neither can be said of Walther, unfortunately.
Good summation. The biggest advantage Glocks have is ubiquity. Parts are everywhere and cheap.

The story of Glocks never breaking or holding up better than other first tier guns when run over with an Abrams tank i don't buy into.

Glock has done a great job with marketing that image and maybe in the early days when gun people were skeptical of the design that was necessary.

Buy that P99 and shoot the snot out of it. Odds are it will outlast you and I.
 

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Good summation. The biggest advantage Glocks have is ubiquity. Parts are everywhere and cheap.

The story of Glocks never breaking or holding up better than other first tier guns when run over with an Abrams tank i don't buy into.

Glock has done a great job with marketing that image and maybe in the early days when gun people were skeptical of the design that was necessary.

Buy that P99 and shoot the snot out of it. Odds are it will outlast you and I.
A lot of my friends have asked why I prefer Walthers over Glocks when Glocks are so reliable/ubiquitous, holsters are plentiful, mags are cheap and there are tons of accessories. Sure the customization aftermarket for Glocks is massive but there’s a reason for that.

Glock went after the LE market hard early on because thats where the big contract money for guns and equipment is. In addition Herr Gaston has great marketing trolls that have kept a lot of issues quiet.

Just what I’m aware of:

There’s been the issues with the DEA frisbee test, the Suffolk County (NY) “immaculate discharge” (nothing says “surprise” like full auto) and the Glock trailer workshop at the NYPD range. Though Glock eventually developed the Gen 3 (following the Gen 2 and 2.5) with the help of that testing so that’s a plus.

Don’t even talk about the Glock .40 cal issues, like the ka-booms (ok, reloaded .40 ammo may not be the best option), the reliability problems, the midnight raid at the FBI Academy armory (an entire class got brand new Glock 23s midway through training and the Bureau still went back to 9mm shortly after) and the headache that was the Army “Unit” experiment. I mean, who would have thought turning a 9mm into .40 would cause cycling issues and wear out springs faster? The only guys I know who still have .40 Glocks are converting them down to 9mm.

The .45 Glocks may still have to live down the Portland (Or) Police ka-boom to some degree (the fault was both the ammo and the design of the chamber). And don’t start on the .45GAP, there are guys at the NY State Police that are still annoyed about being used as guinea pigs for an untested caliber because Glock threw in new holsters and mag pouches and a sweetheart deal on the contract. I’m pretty sure some bean-counter from procurement is buried in the woods near Albany after that little episode.


Not to just bash on Glock, HK management has had their issues with supplying under contracts (I believe the state of Washington sued HK at one point) despite their USP, P30 and VP9s being dependable 9mms. And I have heard of less issues with their .40 and .45 models. (Note to Gaston Glock, if you start with .40 and then go to 9mm you’ll likely have less issues, just saying) I would probably carry HK if they weren’t so expensive, plus the newer grip patterns don’t fit my hand as well. Fingers crossed I can find a 9mm USP at a decent price in the used market at some point.

I have absolutely no doubts in the reliability and engineering of a P99 (or PPQ). My P99 and PPQ have eaten ammo that choked my Glock. They fit my hand better, the trigger guard is bigger (makes using gloves easier), the slide release of the P99 feels like aftermarket Glock slide stops (Vickers, etc) and has never cut up my thumb or been difficult to use. My only gripes are the smooth texture of the grip and the polymer sights. The only reason I feel they weren’t given a greater look at is that Glock marketing hammered the LE market hard with reliability at a decent cost and Glock was able to fill the orders without too many QC issues (cough, SIGARMS, cough). Hell I remember the days when the Sig P228/226 was THE Federal LE issued/carried handgun, now, all I see are Glocks.

In case anybody’s wondering, my current “arsenal,” while mostly Walther, includes a Sig P226 (converted from .40 to 9mm), a Glock 19 with a Lone Wolf Frame, a Polymer 80 Glock 19 (no Glock brand parts were used) and a Glock 34 project waiting on a Polymer 80 frame.


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I'll just add that your gripes, the smooth texture and the polymer sights, aren't exactly perfectly answered by Glock anyway. How many Glocks do we see with stipple jobs or grip tape and aftermarket sights, for good reason? I think it's about a wash here. In fact, it seems Walther and Glock actually tie for the worst factory sights on a service pistol, though Walther at least had the excuse of having to meet inane import points requirements.
 

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I'll just add that your gripes, the smooth texture and the polymer sights, aren't exactly perfectly answered by Glock anyway. How many Glocks do we see with stipple jobs or grip tape and aftermarket sights, for good reason? I think it's about a wash here. In fact, it seems Walther and Glock actually tie for the worst factory sights on a service pistol, though Walther at least had the excuse of having to meet inane import points requirements.
I’m pretty sure Glock has given up the illusion that the plastic sights are viable for self defense/target much less LE or MIL use. I remember some Glock sales person saying that the sights are junk and you’ll probably wind up ditching them anyway so they’re not going to put much effort in upgrading the stock ones.

As I tell my Glock buddies, my mags and holsters may cost more, but we’ve dropped how much on triggers, parts, slide milling, or frame work to fix problems with the Glock that my Walther does not have? (I never count sights in the equation)


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I’m pretty sure Glock has given up the illusion that the plastic sights are viable for self defense/target much less LE or MIL use. I remember some Glock sales person saying that the sights are junk and you’ll probably wind up ditching them anyway so they’re not going to put much effort in upgrading the stock ones...

My Gen 5 19 came with factory steel night sights. So much more useful and usable then the factory plastic sights.
 

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Holsters are the same price if you're comparing holsters from the same brand, as far as I know. Though you obviously have fewer options, and shops that offer a quick ship option will always offer it for Glock and almost never for Walther.

As far as modifying the pistol, neither one bothers me. I could be perfectly happy with a Glock, after making all the same modifications I already have on my P99s. To me, every plastic pistol could use basically the same set of improvements. To get something that's really "perfect" out of the box I think you have to go to higher end and even semi-custom metal-framed guns (LTT 92s, the 1911 type of your choice, Sig Legions...). Even then, there's always someone who wants or needs some tweaking. Which is fine - life is too short to shoot a pistol that doesn't work as well for you as it could.
 

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Mine has been ultra reliable for the 10 years I’ve had it. Seems pretty ‘Tough’

I will say the rear sight retaining plunger thing can break if you drop it directly on it just right from shoulder height. Gun will still fire just fine afterwards tho.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Good summation. The biggest advantage Glocks have is ubiquity. Parts are everywhere and cheap.

The story of Glocks never breaking or holding up better than other first tier guns when run over with an Abrams tank i don't buy into.

Glock has done a great job with marketing that image and maybe in the early days when gun people were skeptical of the design that was necessary.

Buy that P99 and shoot the snot out of it. Odds are it will outlast you and I.
https://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2017/09/glock-17-pistol-torture-test/
 
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