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After reading the bulged case thread below, I just have to wonder - how long before S&W drops the Walther PPK/s? I not only have the many stories of how poorly this product has performed, I have my own experience with this S&W product. That is, I was so enraged by it I took it back to where I bought it the next day and traded it on a Sig P232, which performed perfectly.

Surely, somebody, somewhere in the Smith & Wesson planning department must be making an exit strategy for dropping this famously flawed product by now.

For me, it is especially galling that this is not some new design, but an ancient one (by firearms design standards) and they seemed to have fxxxxd it up entirely.
 

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... that this is not some new design, but an ancient one (by firearms design standards) and they seemed to have fxxxxd it up entirely.
Ahhh, but it's not a new design, Guevera. The "engineers" decided one of the most successful, time-proven designs in the history of handguns wasn't good enough. So they had to tinker, or as MgMike would say, "cobble" with German engineering. They've changed the internals as well. Still, one mustn't forget there are a lot of people who've rolled good dice when they got theirs and ended up with a great pistol they love. And that's what it is... an unacceptable roll of the dice to tip the scale between functionality and anchorage.

-Pilotsteve
 

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Be careful what you wish for. If Smith quits making the PPK-series, then they will be out of production, period end. I don't see someone else picking up the license; people either want old production or the new poly wonder guns.

Smith isn't in business to lose money; they will keep making the PPKs as long as it is profitable. We can't see the big picture; the only folks posting here either are really happy or really wanked. Not a lot in between.
Moon
 

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...If Smith quits making the PPK-series, then they will be out of production, period end.
Moon
Alas, I can't help but feel as if the real PPK's are already gone. Once Interarms sadly went away, to me, that was when they really stopped being born.

I can only dream. My minds' eye paints a vision of a conference room at the Umarex/Walther facility in the Rhine. S&W has given up. One of the board members stands up and declares the intention to reproduce the PP-series handguns once again. True to the original specifications, the entire series from PP 7.65 to PPK/S 9mm kurz are to be hewn from stainless steel, titanium, and even exotic modern indestructible superalloys such as Inconel X if requested by the customer. All CNC mathematically controlled German engineering...

And then I woke up.

-Pilotsteve
 

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Alas, I can't help but feel as if the real PPK's are already gone. Once Interarms sadly went away, to me, that was when they really stopped being born.

I can only dream. My minds' eye paints a vision of a conference room at the Umarex/Walther facility in the Rhine. S&W has given up. One of the board members stands up and declares the intention to reproduce the PP-series handguns once again. True to the original specifications, the entire series from PP 7.65 to PPK/S 9mm kurz are to be hewn from stainless steel, titanium, and even exotic modern indestructible superalloys such as Inconel X if requested by the customer. All CNC mathematically controlled German engineering...

And then I woke up.

-Pilotsteve
I have a similar recurring dream . . Some really smart guy at Ulm or where-ever, one of the gnomes, figures out how to fit a 9mm into a PP sized frame/slide combo - maybe using a Browning or similar barrel, or even a HK style gas retarded blowback, but ending up with a pistol, in steel, that is ergonomically the PP, +/- 10% volume, but in 9mm. I'd sell all of my Walthers and my other 9mm's for that gun!

I've shot the HK - it's a great gun - and I might get one someday - but I really love the ergonomics of the PP model . . I just want it in 9MM.

Shadow Catcher
 

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I have several Walthers. In fact, my first hand gun was a brand new Walther PP in 380. It has served me well after 30+ years.

But, IF Smith & Wesson should drop the PP series guns, what then? Well, I for one would entertain the idea of producing the frames in a polymer material. Smith COULD continue to make the slides (how hard is that) and install them on a new polymer frame. Could do this on the PPK and PPK/S easily. Hell, the frames come from Evergreen casting anyway ( A Ruger wholly owned company). I'll bet you can make a polymer frame for 1/10 the cost of the Ruger frame. Don't know what that would do tho the performance of the gun but would be interesting to see what happens. Scrap the PK380 & build this.
 

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Well.....I plan to hang onto my Ranger 380 and Smith 32 for a while, so they can stop making them if they want to. Could make them a very rare and expensive find, or a boat-anchor....who knows.

BUT....it's all wishful thinking just like the folks that swear Smith is going to drop the lock. For goodness sakes man....it ain't going to happen. Smith is owned by a lock company!

I may sell my Ranger 380 for the right $$$, but I have no desire to get rid of the 32....it shoots too d*** good.
 

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Alas, I can't help but feel as if the real PPK's are already gone. Once Interarms sadly went away, to me, that was when they really stopped being born.

I can only dream. My minds' eye paints a vision of a conference room at the Umarex/Walther facility in the Rhine. S&W has given up. One of the board members stands up and declares the intention to reproduce the PP-series handguns once again. True to the original specifications, the entire series from PP 7.65 to PPK/S 9mm kurz are to be hewn from stainless steel, titanium, and even exotic modern indestructible superalloys such as Inconel X if requested by the customer. All CNC mathematically controlled German engineering...

And then I woke up.

-Pilotsteve
And they will be marketed for a mere $3,500 @.....
The lads at Umarex are more into making Softair guns than classics. I suspect that an Umarex iteration of our beloved PPs would be even more maddening than the ones from Houlton.
Sorry, PS, but there is a reason Walthers are no longer made in the fatherland.
Let's just be grateful for what we have, and that the pecking order has been maintained. Owners of German Walthers can look down on the folks who own Manurhin products, and the Manurhin owners can claim their superiority to the Interarms people. And everybody can look down their noses at the Johnny-come-latelys who have S&Ws.;)
We also have to face the fact that we are fans of an antique, which is part of the charm but also part of the reason that they can't make 'em like they used to. Smith's changes to the tang and specs has virtually produced a 'peasants storm Castle Frankenstein' moment; imagine trying to recreate the PP in polymer...the reaction wouldn't be pretty. Neither would the guns; there's a reason no one is trying to market a poly-framed 1911.
There's a lesson there; Colt and others have brought 'ol slabsides kicking and screaming into a second hundred years. Why is that working better for the 1911 than our beloved Walthers?
Moon
 

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It seems to me that Smith and Wesson can make some extra money by coming out with a Classic PPK. Now we already know that Smith and Wesson has in the past few years come out with their classic series of revolvers.

Let take for instance this;

A classic Walther PPK/L pistol in .22 lr just like they were made in ULM Germany back in the day. This pistol would have a high luster blue finish, a landyard ring at the bottom of the grip, (Just like the original German PPK had) and NO LONG TANG besides being UGLY they are not needed on a .22 lr pistol.

Have you taken a look at a brand new PPK Smith and Wesson in blue finish and compare that to a German ULM PPK in blue finish and tell me if you see any difference in; fit, quality, and finish. Believe me you do not have to look too long..

If the quality, fit and finish of a Smith and Wesson PPK/L .22 lr was identical to the German made examples I would buy one, pehaps me and thousands of other people would as well.

Also why does Smith and Wesson not make a PPK in .22 lr, and just a .32 and .380. I can see the need for a .380 but WHY a .32 acp. A .22 lr PPK would sell probably much better than a .32 acp.

I may be wrong here but not by much.

al
 

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Alfonzo, not a bad idea. A buddy has a Smith 1917 replica, and it doesn't have the finish of a hundred year old S&W, but it comes pretty darn close (turn a blind eye to the lock...)

A retro Walther, with a higher level of finish and sans the proboscis, sounds like a winner. The price would likely be a third again higher, and they would do well to have all their ducks in a row before they put it on the market.

I won't have you dissn' the .32; for many here, it is a favorite caliber. However, the idea of a high-class retro .22 sounds appealing. Selling .22s is a funny business; they are often purchased by newbie shooters wanting to stay on the cheap with ammo. But there is a niche for really nice .22s. A good thought.
Moon
 

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I myself won't allow myself to entertain the thought of a modern reproduction of a real PP-series pistol because it will never happen. The original were machined by hand, often times by women, on real machines. When I say real I mean true machinists' tools of the trade such as lathes and horizontal milling machines similar to Bridgeport-style machines. By hand... people had to turn hand wheels and pull levers. The guns were hewn from solid bars of steel, not cast.

Any reproduction would be CNC machined to mathematical perfection every time (save for tool wear) and lose the warmth of the human touch. When I look at the milling work that is done on the slide of my P38 I am always impressed. The quality of the machining is near flawless... and the tiny "flaws" are human touches such as swirl patterns in some areas of the work. I would miss such things. Everything new and modern is mechanically cold... cookie-cutter reproductions of the pistol before it and the one behind on the assembly line. Every one of the original Walthers ending with Interarms is as unique as a fingerprint. We'd all miss that, I feel.

Just my $000.000.000.000.02.

-Pilotsteve

p.s. Ahhh, 1/2 Moon and I at it again. The alloy of the new hypothetical PPK. Just like old times! Yes, I understand now how terribly snappy a titanium model would be, never mind the truckload of Benjamins it would cost for such a brute. I move to suggest Osmium next as the alloy of choice!
 

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More likely they'd have to make it of unobtanium, Steve...
Moon
 

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I can see the need for a .380 but WHY a .32 acp.
Walther blasphemy!!!

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I've always owned either the Manurhin or Interarms PP series. I agree with other posts on the older S&Ws being a roll of the dice. Smith & Wesson customer service does have a reputation for fixing problems and the newer ones seem to be a lot better on QC issues.

I would not be opposed to one of the newer S&Ws if something happened to my current guns.

I follow these threads with a similar view of the Colt 1st Generation, 2nd Generation and Black Powder series C&B guns. No one disputes the 1st Generations. The 2nd Generations were slow in acceptance by collectors and the Signature Series still has individuals argue that they are not Colts. The bottom line is they were all manufactured under Colt license.

I'd say in another 20 years shooter's will be just as nostalgic over the S&Ws as a lot of us are the older Walthers. There are a lot of gun owners who are having positive experiences with these guns.
 

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Walther blasphemy!!!

Amen! :D

I'd say in another 20 years shooter's will be just as nostalgic over the S&Ws as a lot of us are the older Walthers. There are a lot of gun owners who are having positive experiences with these guns.
In twenty years, when Ulm licenses production to the People's Gun and Motor Factory in Chengdu, guys on this forum will be pining for the Smith version.

Just how it is.
Moon
 

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Well said, 1/2 Moon. I'm just worried that at this rate, twenty years from now they may still be made here. In Houlton, Maine. In New England. In the People's Republic of America. The Chinese will have called their debt by then.


-Pilotsteve
 
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