Walther Forums banner

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,468 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Dr. Will Dabbs is a doctor who really wants to be a gun writer. He frequently does articles about the unsavory ends of historical personages, and about the firearms involved.
Dabbs had a recent article addressing Hitler's demise. He claimed that Der Fuhrer carried two Walthers, a PP in 7.65 as a holstered service arm, and a .25 concealed in a holster sewed into his clothing.
The .32 was reported as the suicide gun, and that both pistols were lost in the chaos around the fall of Berlin.
A highly engraved, gold washed PP was also found in a wall safe, and auctioned for over $100k. It was a birthday present from the Walther family to the dictator on his 50th birthday. It's whereabouts are now unknown.
Guns from the Nazi era have always had a strange aura. My daughter was always a little spooked by a '37 Luger.
No doubt that more than a few of us here have wartime German guns, but don't hold them for their Nazi connections. They are artifacts of history, and interesting machines. It would be fascinating, and perhaps terrifying, if they could talk.
Hitler's possession of a .25 PPK was news to me.
Moon
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,943 Posts
I can't imagine that a .25 PPK was in Hitler's possession. Also I didn't ever read of a PP. His personal weapons are often cited as a .25 Walther Model 8 (S/N 457044) and a .32 Walther PPK (S/N 803157). The serial numbers may be questionable, but the models could apply. I have to note that I wasn't there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
355 Posts
I knew about the .25, but didn't know it was a Walther. I would think it would be something smaller because of where it was carried, in the leather holster sewn in his pocket. I seriously doubt Hitler would have or want an engraved gun.

He kept the .32 in the safe in his office, locked up so it's pretty clear he wasn't a gun guy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,914 Posts
highly engraved, gold washed PP was also found in a wall safe, and auctioned for over $100k. It was a birthday present from the Walther family to the dictator on his 50th birthday.
I thought it had been determined that one was a fake?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,468 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Balog, concur, I wasn't there either. ;)
Simply was quoting Dabbs' article for others' thots'.
Have to concur that a PPK in .25 makes virtually no sense, when there were smaller guns for ready concealment in that caliber.
As regards the heavily engraved Walther, again, just quoting Dabbs. It was garish to a fault as pictured.
Moon
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,468 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
GeMor; appreciate the link. The Google translation reveals the weaknesses of such programs! :)
Best,
Moon
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
GeMor; appreciate the link. The Google translation reveals the weaknesses of such programs! :)
Best,
Moon
I was too lazy to check the extensive English translation for weaknesses. I admit that I haven't read it at all.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,739 Posts
What I've read over the years was that Hitler had a PPK in .32 ACP that he used to kill himself with and that both he and Eva had a Wather Model 8 in .25 ACP. Eva used this Model 8 for her suicide attempt in 1932. I've seen pictures of Hitler carrying the PPK on his belt while visiting troops in Poland in 1939.

Hitler hated the bling and ostentatious display of wealth that Goering was known for so I've always been sceptical of these engraved and gold plated pistols that purportedly belonged to him. Even if he was given one I suspect that he would've regifted it to someone else. However, I have read one anecdote that if true leads me to believe that his PPK was verchromt.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,468 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I was too lazy to check the extensive English translation for weaknesses. I admit that I haven't read it at all.
The German habit of attaching modifiers to the noun probably flummoxed the system; trying to read it is a real slog. :(
Moon
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
7,468 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Hemi', who knows. The complete chaos of VE Germany, and the Russians not necessarily sharing anything, complicates it all.
In addition to us and the Brits, the Israelis did some serious searching.
Wouldn't care to have those folks on my trail; understandably, it was personal for them.
Moon
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
318 Posts
Seems to be a lot of circumstantial evidence to support it too?
Wasn't his body burned beyond recognition?
It's hard to believe the maniacal, narcissistic megalomaniac not having a back-up plan?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
355 Posts
There is no circumstantial evidence that Hitler fled to Argentina. Suicide was his back up plan. He wasn't good at planning which showed when in the last days he gave orders to units that no longer existed. He valued Will over Ability, and it showed in 1945...and before, really.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
Traudl Junge wrote she witnessed Hitler remove his Walther PPK in 7.65mm from his safe on the day he committed suicide.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
565 Posts
...
..... so I've always been sceptical of these engraved and gold plated pistols that purportedly belonged to him. ....
One thing that everybody needs to keep in mind in these discussions is that the engraved presentation guns that may have been gifted to Hitler (and other high Nazis), by businesses, organizations, or wealthy individual brown-nosers, are a completely different topic from "Hitler's guns".

It used to be quite common to make such presentations. And unless the targeted recipient was a gun enthusiast, which Hitler was not, he would look at the thing, make an admiring noise, thank the donor, then hand the gun and box to an aide and it would disappear into storage, never to see the light of day again. I think it was in Munich where US soldiers later found a warehouse full of not just guns, but all kinds of fancy gifts like that given to high Nazis.

On the other hand, at least according to the eye witness testimony, Hitler's actual pistols in the bunker were ordinary production models.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
140 Posts
The German habit of attaching modifiers to the noun probably flummoxed the system; trying to read it is a real slog. :(
Moon
Now I've also read the English translation and I have to admit that in some places it can only be understood with thought and combination.
For such an extensive German text, however, I will continue to use Google Translate in the future, because I am not a professional translator and do not have the time for such a translation, but rather go hunting or take care of family, house and garden.:cool:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,914 Posts
Hello all,
This article "Trophäen des Sieges" in "Der Spiegel" 5/1999 was actually researched by my late friend Joachim Görtz and me. It was, however, then published under Georg Bönischs's name, as he worked for "Der Spiegel". Achim and I simply did not want to read our names in this article.
Best wishes,
Dieter H. Marschall.
Dang, I had a vague memory of this article and was looking for it the other day, thanks!

 
1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Top