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Discussion Starter #1
I made this same post in the "P88 for sale" started by Hiroc, but I wanted the Title to be prominent somewhere, so everyone could see. Here is my reply to the P88 for sale:

In all the years of trusting fellow gun enthusiasts, I got taken! After replying to this ad and setting everything up for purchase of this P88, I thought all was well and I sent a Postal Money order off to Hiroc. I put a track on the money order and on the 13th of January the check arrived. On 15th of January, I get an email stating that the P88 has been shipped, via FedEx (no tracking number given.). On the 16th I ask for a tracking number, so I can coordinate with my FFL for pickup. I get a response saying he is out of town visiting his parents, but he will get with his wife and have her send him the tracking number and he will get it to me. On the 18th, I again ask for the tracking number. On the 19th I get a reply saying "Fedex said you will get the package on Monday. Coming home Sunday and I will get to the bottom of the delay myself". On Monday, I get a reply "Got home really late, The package was report back to my address. Don't know why.
Please confirm your FFL's address:"

I again, send my FFL address to him.

I send him my FFL address again, and then get this reply "Do you think FedEx have issues shipping firearms. i think i state it on the paper. damn!!! could could have all been my fault."

I tell him, that UPS is much better at shipping firearms.

On Wed. 22 of January, I ask again about shipment. I get this reply: "The P88 was damaged while i was carrying it around, Yes it's best i return you money, where do you want the check sent to ?"

I reply that "that's not good, How badly?". This is the reply I get: "The barrel got broken, i was in a hurry to get it shipped yesterday and i got into a little incident. i was so weak when i found out that it was damaged. where do you want to be refunded ?"

I asked to see some pictures of the damage, thinking that maybe if it wasn't too bad, I could get a replacement barrel from Earl or someone. No pictures were sent.

Five days later, I ask about my refund check. This is the response: "waiting on my pay check Sir."

No you can imagine I'm just down right mad now. He had no right to spend that money yet, until I got what I paid for!!!

I still have a small bit of hope, since he's still communicating with me, so I send another email and state that I want a Postal Money order sent now, and I want a tracking number.

31st January, I get this reply "Yes it goes out today, Thanks for your patience Sir."

Today is February 10th and I still haven't seen my money!

My trust in my fellow "gun nuts" has now been eroded. This looked legit from the start, just as many of my other long distance private purchases have been. This one just takes the cake. He even talked about his kids and how much he "loves them with all his heart" in one of the emails to me. Well, I hope those kids still love him, when they find out their daddy is a thief!! (although he probably doesn't have any kids)

Anyway, rant over. I'm now taking steps to get my money back and possibly get him arrested.
 

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Sorry to hear about your situation. I know when it happened to me...it really pissed me off. You can only learn from it.
Here are my changes afterward.

Any transaction requiring more than a couple of hundred dollars require me swapping ID with the person.

I also google their address and see if it is an actual home or a vacant lot.

I am going to look up your transaction feedbacks and posts. If you have a few thousand posts, that helps.

If it is a large enough transaction >$600, I want a phone conversation and I ask enough questions to satisfy my skepticism. I am even requesting a text of the item while I am talking to you.

Hope you get some resolution with your case.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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That really sucks. Like PPS1980 said, get the USPS and their Postal Inspectors involved. That's mail fraud and a federal offense!
Yes, the USPS will not do a thing. I was scammed like this about two years ago ( I have learned my lesson). Turned in everything to the postal inspectors and never even was contacted......
 

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Does not sound as if English is the first language of this individual.

Sorry to hear it, but it occurs in the firearms community just as anywhere else.

Keep us updated, maybe there is a positive end to this story, otherwise very unfortunate

sikiguya has a good process down, may save that one for later
 
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The USPS Inspectors are not going to do anything. While is is easy to see the matter as mail fraud it is not likely to ever be seen by the USPS as such. The fact that the negligent seller has communicated is an impediment to a case of fraud. A fraudster would take the money and never communicate with the buyer again. They seller will plead that he spent the money before he realized he had to refund, and nor he is having a hard time getting the money together for the refund. That is not going to seen as criminal. It is a civil matter as I see it.

I assume the seller is in a different seller than the OP/buyer. That limits options like filing a claim in a small class court. The police are not going to get involved because it is a commercial transaction that has not been completed but might be. I hope I am wrong for P88's sake, but I am thinking he is going to have a difficult time getting the money back.

This is a good example of why I buy in face-to-face transactions unless an Internet transaction allows for escrowing the funds until the purchased item is received.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Well, from all the posts, it sounds like I was taken. I've done this several times over the years and this one seemed to be solid, just like all the others. I received more pictures that I initially requested, googled the address and did see that it was a legitimate home. I did not call. If I ever do this again I will. I did look up some of his posts and he was fairly new to the site, but seemed ok.

Anyway, I did submit a Mail Fraud report. I'll report back if I hear anything. I may look at the Ohio Attorney Generals web site and see if I can file a claim there too. Maybe between the USPS and Ohio AG, someone will nail this A-- Clown. If not, I suspect someday, he will get his "just" reward.

Either way, I'll be ok.
 

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Why not research his IP address, and contact the police in his area. They might follow up, ID, or even speak to him to "clear it up" before charges are filed. After all, the "fraud" started at his end. He also registered on this site, so the mods might have some starting place.
 

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Don't waste your time trying to follow legal avenues. I lost $500.00 in a similar deal to an "Edith Lackey" in Hickory NC. Was contacted through this very forum.
I went to great effort and some additional expense trying to get restitution. Contacted the local investigator in Hickory, NC who interviewed her. She admitted to receiving the money and spending it. Any help from that office ended abruptly. In fact the investigator told me he interviewed her over lunch as I recall. My local PD tried to help me out by contacting her. She talked to them but they were not going to send an officer almost 1,000 miles to arrest her and bring her back to where I live for prosecution. Next was a very long detailed letter to the district attorney of Hickory County. This after a phone call to them by the way. No response from the DA's office. After all avenues were exhausted and some health issues took priority in my life I let go of the issue. Also found out with some help from LEO on another forum that she previously was incarcerated.
Very sorry to hear of your experience. Like you I had previously had very good experiences doing business with members of the firearms community.
Shame on me for allowing myself to become complacent. Only positive thing about the experience is a lesson learned and the desire to warn others in an attempt to prevent similar experiences happening to them.
Thank you for your post warning others.
DD
Edit: I don't do social media but was told the individual that scammed me has a facebook account that is loaded with religious quotes and similar stuff.
 

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Moral of the story is to only buy firearms from long time and well respected forum members that actually participate in the forums. Anyone that starts out posting on the forum with a “For Sale” post should be viewed with suspicion. Trust needs to be earned.
 

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While I do not endorse this type of behavior, my brother is a redneck, and very vengeful. He treats people fairly, but has no tolerance for those who try to cheat him. I believe he traveled from Ohio to Texas one time and squared off with a gun purchaser/fraud/thief with a baseball bat. I'm not sure he got any money back, but he was satisfied with the results enough to not mention it again. Scammers, on the rare occasion, also have to beware.
 

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I see no reason to pursue scammers with the intent of physical harm. They are HARD at work ensuring their own eventual demise. Why disrupt that eventuality?


Karma travels on a long arc thru the universe, and that arc is ALWAYS curving toward justice.


Sane people who understand human nature will avoid crossing armed citizens. These scammers are sh!thouse rat level crazy!
 

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While I do not endorse this type of behavior, my brother is a redneck, and very vengeful. He treats people fairly, but has no tolerance for those who try to cheat him. I believe he traveled from Ohio to Texas one time and squared off with a gun purchaser/fraud/thief with a baseball bat. I'm not sure he got any money back, but he was satisfied with the results enough to not mention it again. Scammers, on the rare occasion, also have to beware.
Sometimes the "Long arm of the law" isn't quite long enough.

The saying - "You don't know who you are dealing with..." works both ways.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
While I do not endorse this type of behavior, my brother is a redneck, and very vengeful. He treats people fairly, but has no tolerance for those who try to cheat him. I believe he traveled from Ohio to Texas one time and squared off with a gun purchaser/fraud/thief with a baseball bat. I'm not sure he got any money back, but he was satisfied with the results enough to not mention it again. Scammers, on the rare occasion, also have to beware.
Karma travels on a long arc thru the universe, and that arc is ALWAYS curving toward justice.
Funny thing is, I get sent to Ohio every now and then for work...just sayin' ;)

But the above statement is very true. It wouldn't surprise me if someday Mr. Hiroc finds himself as the "Valentine" date of his cellmate. :D
 

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Getting some traction on this. The Postal Inspectors have made contact with me and are looking into it. I don't expect this to be solved overnight, but will post information when I can.
As I said, they’re under appreciated. Keep us informed. Good luck.
 
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