[redraif]

Hi all,
I'm a newbie here. Just bought my P22 and I love it. Mine came with the 3inch barrel and I also wanted the 5inch kit as an option to swap to now and again. Seeing as how most say they are not worth the extra $ to buy separate, I looked around and found a pre-owned NIB one for sale. I bought it discovered an issue when I received it.
I was bought it with a bunch of other P22 stuff and never inspected. Being in the box there was the assumption it was new. Well it was not and it is damaged. I messaged the seller and we are going to work this out. So no worries there.
The problems: (Pictures to follow to get opinions.)
Its missing one of the attachment screws to hold the nose piece on and the hole missing the screw also has part of the casting broke off inside. The screw I do have looks like it has been over torqued a bit. There is only one Allen wrench. The smaller one is missing. No instructions (if there were any). The feed ramp looks a bit off, like the machining is not factory new. So I believe it was previously used or at least tried on.
At first I was so upset, I wanted a simple return/refund and then got to thinking... maybe the damage is cosmetic and won't affect the integrity? I assume the nose piece is really more of a covering? Then the missing pieces... I can get an Allen wrench anywhere. The screw, maybe walther will get me a replacement for cheap.
So instead I messaged him and offered some options. Maybe I can work with him to adjust the price to a fair used price based on damage & keep the unit that way we both win? (if it is still functional) He said he is fine either way (full refund or partial and I keep)
1. First what is a fair used/damaged price?
2. From there, can I get Walther to warranty it and replace the problem nose piece. Not sure what their warranty practices are with something like this. I have no store reciept. Can I purchase a new screw from them?
If it’s simply cosmetic and walther won't help, should/could it be epoxied back in place?
So please look at the pics and give me your expert opinions...
A. Walk away with full refund
B. Keep and have seller adjust price to fair used (talk to walther about warranty)
C. Keep and have seller adjust price to fair used. Get a new screw and epoxy the broke piece back or leave it off...
PICTURES:
overall:

hole in bag: (how screw lost)

broken piece

nose and screw:

barrel ramp: Also there is some discoloration (red) or like chipping on the top of the barrel at the ramp: might be normal

Ok sorry for all the pics and long post, but I really don't want to either over react or under react. I might ahve a diamond in the rough that I can get a good deal on... esp since on the outside it's decent...

 

[kingfhb]

If the damage is mostly the front nose cover, I would ask him to at least refund you the replacement cost of just that item (screws, cover, etc.). Everything else seems fine with no damage.

Ask first for a percentage refund that would exceed the cost of the replacement part (including shipping). If he agrees, then you're golden. If not, then give him a dollar amount... if he agrees, you still have your item.

I know you could just order the screw (two actually) and go from there because the actual housing is only damaged cosmetically... but at the least you should get what you need to have what you wanted.

That nose guard was severely over-tightened (both screws). Have you even tried to put it on your weapon yet? It's possible he over-tightened it because it wouldn't grasp the barrel shroud tight enough and kept falling off or causing problems. The chipping of the barrel ramp shouldn't cause you any problems. Oh, and it has DEFINITELY been fired. This looks like it was fired quite a bit actually and each time the operator tightened it more and more because it was causing problems until finally it cracked. He obviously tightened it so much that he nearly rounded off the allen wrench slot.

He probably didn't include the smaller allen wrench because it was so damaged.

If he does not want to meet your final price, ask for a complete refund.

 

[redraif]

No I have not tried it on yet. I was first wanting to gauge if it was even worth it. I will give it as go and see how it goes. My gun is brand new so I have yet to really mess with it, let alone test fit this guy.

Do the noses have issues not staying put in general?

Should I just call the number on the box to inquire the price from Walther for replacement pieces?

 

[kingfhb]

No I have not tried it on yet. I was first wanting to gauge if it was even worth it. I will give it as go and see how it goes. My gun is brand new so I have yet to really mess with it, let alone test fit this guy.

Do the noses have issues not staying put in general?

Should I just call the number on the box to inquire the price from Walther for replacement pieces?

Personally, I would do both. Get the price for the replacement, then hit up the guy you bought it from for a refund in that amount + shipping. He apparently didn't disclose the damage or the missing parts. Like I said, if he won't, then just get a full refund. Obviously NOT NIB... fraud.

I haven't heard of the nose having an issue staying on... I believe whomever had it before you simply over-torqued it just out of stupidity.

 

[redraif]

I'm pretty sure the seller had no clue. I'm pretty sure he bought it himself that way. He should have inspected it before he listed it, yes, but I don't think he had any idea of the damage nor was he attempting to be fraudulant. He has been very reasonable and willing to make it right. I think it was an honest mistake.

 

[1917-1911M]

It's just the stabilizer that is damaged. The barrel appears to be fine as does the feed ramp. First, I'd call Walther in Fort Smith, arkansas and tell them you bought a new 5" barrel kit and the stabilizer is fractured. They will probably send you a new one for free......that is the way it has been with S&W, I expect Walther to do an even better job with their customers.

In the meantime you can shoot either barrel. The stabilizer simply adds some weight to the end of the barrel and covers the extra inch or so of naked barrel/sleeve that sticks out the front of the slide. Both pistols use the same slide as you are aware. No big deal, call Walther and ask for help !!!!!!!!!!!! They'll probably fix you up. They can also log into WaltherForums.com this thread and have a look at the situation. Good luck. In the meantime strap on a barrel of one length or the other and go shoot something.

Oh yeah, in picture 9 and 10 looks like someone might have been torquing down on the screws pretty tight with the Allen wrench. That is entirely possible as I was never able to make mine stay put. Which.....is why I never got another 5"er. The little barrel screw on top of the stabilizer doesn't hold the stabilizer on the barrel sleeve...it is used to locate the stabilizer in the proper vertical alignment as the sight blade is usually swapped from the slide to the stabilizer. If you want to know if the gun has been fired take a look at the underside of the slide where the trigger bar ears hit and while you are at it....take a look at the trigger bar ears to make sure the top, front edge isn't sharp which it probably is unless someone has rounded and polished them. M1911

 

[kingfhb]

He acutally just purchased the 5" kit to replace the 3"... he's wondering if the barrel has ever had any rounds through it because of the feed ramp being nicked up. I would say it has by the looks of it, but I can't be 100%.

 

[1917-1911M]

Walther has finally sorted the chamber chamfer and feed ramp. Pictured above is my new BC, December 2012 feed ramp. I'll dig up an AK, '09 effort they attempted. The OP has a stock looking and new looking feed ramp. There was some pretty crummy grinding done on earlier models. I bought some of em....fixed them my self but....as can be seen above Walther has it together regarding the chamber. They are still dumbfounded about what to do about sharp trigger bar ears though....

My AK barrel chamber......'09. This was back when Walther used big Dremels to one hand grind the chamber chamfer and off center feed ramp. Glad they finally cleaned up there act here. I was the one that posted pictures of how I chamfered the bottom of the chamber entrance....that was a long time ago....about '05 or so.

M1911

 

[redraif]

Called walther.... they did not seem to eager to send me anything. They said they could not even part with a replacement screw... wow! The whole thing comes together... the compensator as they called it and the screws all come as one unit. $35.00 shipped. I asked if the damage would be a warrenty item. They said they would have to have the gunsmith look at it. So no clue. So I guess I have to ship it to them first.... then they will see. Then I may or may not have to buy a whole unit.

So I guess I have to let the guy know its going to be a minimum of $35 plus shipping to Walther to evaluate for possible defective coverage.

The guy on the phone said there is a new and old version. Can you tell from my pics if I have the new or old version? He was saying something about square notches on the underside. I'm guessing I have the old version? Did they redesign to entire kit? Would I be better with a newer version kit to be sure the compensator stays put?

So the barrel ramp could look that bad from the factory... yipes! I have looked at my gun and it looks so much nicer then this ramp. Again why I thought it was used... lol.

 

[redraif]

1917-1911M
I looked at your pics again. The first one looks like my p22's stock 3 inch barrel and the second looks like the 5inch barrel.

I have a friend with an older p22.... his ears are horribly sharp. And the slide very chewed up. My ears almost looked smooth and polished in comparison, but the slide did have an injury from the factory test fire. If I get brave I might try your mods. I have yet to ever tear a gun down to that level, so I'm a bit hesitant. Maybe I can find someone to help who has more experience... lol.

Too bad you are not in Ga.

 

[redraif]

I know you could just order the screw (two actually) and go from there because the actual housing is only damaged cosmetically... but at the least you should get what you need to have what you wanted.

That nose guard was severely over-tightened (both screws). Have you even tried to put it on your weapon yet? It's possible he over-tightened it because it wouldn't grasp the barrel shroud tight enough and kept falling off or causing problems.

Ok so I decided to try and do a test fit of the nose to barrel sleeve in the kit.... well I had to really tighten down on the one screw that was there to get it to stay on the sleeve and that is without any vibration from firing... So then i think, hmm wonder how the back functions.... ACK...

Wow.... can u say complete brain fart? Stupidly I never really thought the break on the compensator through. Just now it hits me...


It can't be repaired... the piece that broke off is actually the lip/shelf that the screw head bears down on to tighten the unit to the cylinder.

Duh! I put the screw in the broken side and I can screw it all the way down and it just keeps going... affecting nada...wow

 

[1917-1911M]

New style stabilizer. The original had loose nuts on one side that dropped into a recess provided for them and square cut notches on top. Yours has integral nuts and round bottom on the notches. A poorly engineered piece for the P22. Tightening too much will stretch the cast zinc. and then apparently break the nut backing. You could put a washer on the end of the screw to make it work. Or, just clamp it down with a big ole C clamp. That will squash it nicely and add some real weight to the end of the barrel. M1911

 

[redraif]

Reporting back. The seller took awesome care of me... so we are squared away.

I was picking up my beretta from my gunsmith and let him take a look at the kit. He says its a definate defect in the casting of the compensator. You should have not been able to tighten it enough with a simple allen key to cause that failure unless there was a flaw. He said that the kit was definately used and quite a few rounds were fired through it. He said call up Walther and get a return authorization and send it in.

So I called Walther and spoke with Derek. I explained everything just like the gunsmith directed. Told him it kept loosening while firing and had to be retightened. That the second screw hole failed completely with the shoulder completely shearing off. He said they don't issue return authorizations for things like that. I just need to send it in for evaluation...

Is this correct or did I get a knucklehead? Did he just blow me off? He seemed completely unconcerned. Do I need to call back?

If it is defective and they decide to warrenty it, will they give me back my shipping?

 

[1917-1911M]

I think you could easily break a cast zinc part by over tightening a bolt. The stabilizer is pretty thin.

Who did you call? For the past 10 years S&W has been supplying free shipping, free repair or replacement parts to everyone. The Fort Smith Arkansas plant will be handling distribution, parts and service now. I don't know what their policy will be. For a pistol like a PPQ I don't have a problem with a 1 year warranty but for a pistol that breaks stabilizers, slides, hammer springs, frames, etc.......The warranty needs to be for life, new or used.

I may call them and see what the policy will be since I speak the language and know the history. If the seller paid for the cost of a new part I'd just order one though. It's possible to tear anything up. Parts that break due to poor engineering or material should be covered for a long, long time. M1911

 

[redraif]

I'm sure I will have to pay, and that is really not the bottom line. I'm not trying to get something for nothing. Just want the manufacturer to treat me fairly. Not this spotty game of some get and some don't. If the gun smith says they should treat me a certain way, I expect that treatment.

My real concern is that if there is a part issue, unless they get the parts and see there is an issue.... they will never address repetative problems and re-engineer parts. So if i just order the replacement, i have helped no one. Also, if they make it a complete hassle to send in a part folks won't do it.

What got me on my soap box was when I read on another forum that just a few weeks ago a guy sent in a walther he bought used and they emailed him a shipping label and a form to fill out. I did not even get told how to send it in or to whom or to where. No instructions what so ever. I asked if I should send it ups, usps, fedex.... tracking or signature required? I got the answer of "however you want to send it". I mean we are talking gun parts here. You want to be sure who is the better carrier. Then i had to tell him their address to confirm... wtf, really?

But regardless of that, I think they should have a standard of customer service. I hate to think that I was getting the shaft because I'm a female. Dont think it doesn't happen all the time in my choosen hobby of car customization. I'm amazed how many times I have to get guy friends to handle other guys for me.

If you can figure out what the real policy is and how I should have been treated that would be awesome.

I guess I still think that the shipping label could be sent and if its customer fault you pay the shipping back. I mean they have your parts hostage for goodness sake.

 

[wtkshooter]

redraif ......... I totally agree with what you are saying.

 

[1917-1911M]

Over the years folks have e-mailed Walther....I did too, way back. The result of that is you won't get a reply.....ever. So, I call the number listed on the manual. At S&W you got the menu, punch in 3 for customer service and ask for someone who knows about the P22. That someone at S&W was Jeff Whitehouse. Took care of everyone. There were plenty of threads where someone answered and apparently didn't have a clue what the caller was asking for or about. Yet, they gave some baloney answer like....there aren't any new extractors for the P22. Well in fact there were..this customer service rep just didn't know about them. I've also asked them to log onto WaltherForums.com and have a look at the actual thread and pictures. They could do it. That clarified many a question.

Funny, you don't sound like a female on the forum here.

I am assuming you called the new Walther plant at Fort Smith Arkansas. I got a new P22 and didn't even look at the manual. Does it have the Arkansas number?

The way it has worked in the past with S&W and Ruger and whoever is; they generally prefer to fix your firearm unless you convince them all you need are parts and know how to install them. If they need to take a look at the pistol, and plenty of times a firearm really does need to go back if you are having issues, they will ask for your address and send you a mailing label. All of the ones I ever got had their return address on the label and was either Fed X or something else. No guessing on my part. Simply box up an unloaded firearm, attach label, go to appropriate store and ship it.

Get the tracking number when you mail it and keep it. That is all I have ever done. Then one day the Fed X or UPS guy shows up with your pistol and you sign for the package at your home or where ever you listed it to be shipped to. Some of the small stores will not ship firearms, you have to take it to the big store....so I don't tell em what it is. SAW is what the old label said for S&W. They didn't know what SAW was. One of these groups doesn't ship firearms I believe. Could be wrong, prolly am.

I don't know what Walther's procedure will be for the new plant. First, you have to get your southern drawl on so they can understand you. Sounds like you got a noob.....next time, ask for his/her name, always do that regardless of who you are calling. That is friendlier and sets em on their toes that you know who they are. I use my closed captioning app. when talking to the folks in Mass/Conn. M1911

 

[1917-1911M]

Oh yeah.....I'm not sure you will have to pay. Darn thing should be designed so that it can't be overtightened and break. I could never keep mine tight, it stretched, didn't break. S&W sent me a new one free. This was years ago, it wouldn't stay tight either. Never bought another 5" version. M1911

 

[1917-1911M]

My real concern is that if there is a part issue, unless they get the parts and see there is an issue.... they will never address repetitive problems and re-engineer parts.

Hey Searcher....I think redraif might be onto something here. What do you think? M1911


redraif.....I and others have been trying to get stuff straightened out on the P22 for over 10 years. I even talk to the guy in Germany responsible for engineering. Slowly.......very, very slowly.....then it is still zinc.

 

[redraif]

thanks for the advice!

Over the years folks have e-mailed Walther....I did too, way back. The result of that is you won't get a reply.....ever. So, I call the number listed on the manual. At S&W you got the menu, punch in 3 for customer service and ask for someone who knows about the P22.

I called s&w first since they were the ones listed on the box. I got their customer service and got cut off as soon as I said walther p22. The guys says no, you must call Walther in Arkansas. He gave me the number.

Funny, you don't sound like a female on the forum here.

Due to may years on car forums... the habitual leg humping gets annoying so I usually don't say unless it becomes relavant. Its amazing how different folks will act. They say they want more women in the hobby, but they won't respect us. Though honestly its more the females faults who get on the forums and are clueless and think that they get respect by postjng picks of them with their car and flirting. Gives the rest of us a bad name.

I am assuming you called the new Walther plant at Fort Smith Arkansas. I got a new P22 and didn't even look at the manual. Does it have the Arkansas number?

The way it has worked in the past with S&W and Ruger and whoever is; they generally prefer to fix your firearm unless you convince them all you need are parts and know how to install them. If they need to take a look at the pistol, and plenty of times a firearm really does need to go back if you are having issues, they will ask for your address and send you a mailing label. All of the ones I ever got had their return address on the label and was either Fed X or something else. No guessing on my part. Simply box up an unloaded firearm, attach label, go to appropriate store and ship it.

Get the tracking number when you mail it and keep it. That is all I have ever done. Then one day the Fed X or UPS guy shows up with your pistol and you sign for the package at your home or where ever you listed it to be shipped to. Some of the small stores will not ship firearms, you have to take it to the big store....so I don't tell em what it is. SAW is what the old label said for S&W. They didn't know what SAW was. One of these groups doesn't ship firearms I believe. Could be wrong, prolly am.

Funny you say they ship back to the address you listed. I assume on a forum of some kind? Yeah they did not even mention that part.

I don't know what Walther's procedure will be for the new plant. First, you have to get your southern drawl on so they can understand you. Sounds like you got a noob.....next time, ask for his/her name, always do that regardless of who you are calling. That is friendlier and sets em on their toes that you know who they are. I use my closed captioning app. when talking to the folks in Mass/Conn. M1911

Well I'm from GA so you would think I would have a bit of an accent... lol... I try to keep the southern accent under control. Keeps people from boxing you in based on preconceived notions. I remember folks saying on other threads to get a name and use it while conversing. I did just that. His name is Derek. Lol. Didn't help at all... lol